Off-Topic Some questions about cardio/endurance

[ali]

Difficult to unpack, but also probably irrelevant if you're doing all of this for health outcomes, as opposed to winning the Tour de France.

Agree but the goalposts constantly shift with zone 2.
A health must do....it isn't. Performance enhancer....it depends. Longevity....iffy.

This when compared to generally being active eg walking a lot and/or strength training and intervals.

The pre diabetic state of excessive endurance training in cyclists with evidence also of reduced telomere length, a supposed sign of increased biological age is not the state most other recreational athletes find themselves in.

This is the excessive endurance analogue to the daily constant thrashing of tabata Cross fit wods and for many strength focused athletes this is more of a risk than excess endurance volume...leading to a negative health outcome.

From sedentary to excessive, for health stay in the middle-ish somewhere. Do zone 2 if you want but it isn't the holy grail unless you want to emphasise it for an event training.

2/3 days a week zone 2, 2/3 days of strength. Great.

Daily walking, 2/3 strength days, 2/3 days intervals. Great too.

1 day zone 2. 1 day intervals. I day max strength. Plus 1 optional day of preference. Great aswell (Andy Galpin recommendation).

4/5 days zone 2. 1 day strength. Great for an endurance athlete only. For health v all the above?
I'd argue inferior but some endurance bias spin may argue otherwise.

 

[offwidth]

some endurance bias spin may argue otherwise.

Only the top guys and gals…

 

[TimothyGander]

mitochondrial development in Slow Fibers is emphasized in so-called low-intensity steady-state exercise.

that the mitochondrial adaptations of slow fibers are the essential component -- he doesn't tout cardiovascular adaptations, either.

You're not getting slow fiber adaptations from short workouts.

Thank you both for clarifying this for me - I have completely neglected the distinction between slow and fast fiber adaptations. In fact, I haven't gleaned this at all from reading Q&D, S&S and other material available to the hoi polloi multiple times. Apparently I don't understand SF ideas (or the underlying science) as well as I thought I do.

This being HIIT. SIT is not as effective in this regard

What is SIT?

 

[North Coast Miller]

Thank you both for clarifying this for me - I have completely neglected the distinction between slow and fast fiber adaptations. In fact, I haven't gleaned this at all from reading Q&D, S&S and other material available to the hoi polloi multiple times. Apparently I don't understand SF ideas (or the underlying science) as well as I thought I do.

What is SIT?

SIT= Sprint Interval Training

Generally done at comparable or higher intensity than HIIT with longer rests. This is primarily about maintaining power output although very similar adaptive response to HIIT.

Something to keep in mind when comparing apples to oranges, short intense sessions such as HIIT and to a slightly lesser extent SIT absolutely do have an effect on slow twitch mitochondria. One of the signature adaptive responses is an large increase in muscle oxidative capacity/output. By definition this is slow twitch and hybrid.

Imagine the magnitude of capillary density increase at 100%, HIIT splits it at about 40/60 type1/type2. LISS is 100% type1. There is no doubt LISS preferentially increases type1 capillary density more than HIIT.

Mitochondrial density increase split is something I haven’t found in research notes. But again, it isn’t possible to increase aerobic throughput of type2 fibers, wherever they’re increasing it must be of benefit to both fiber types.

This is why despite not doing much to improve glycolytic enzyme capacity, LISS will still improve high output endurance, and HIIT will still improve steady state endurance.

 

[watchnerd]

Thank you both for clarifying this for me - I have completely neglected the distinction between slow and fast fiber adaptations. In fact, I haven't gleaned this at all from reading Q&D, S&S and other material available to the hoi polloi multiple times. Apparently I don't understand SF ideas (or the underlying science) as well as I thought I do.

A lot of the missing pieces are covered in basic physiology / microbiology and exercise / sports science materials.

 

[watchnerd]

Agree but the goalposts constantly shift with zone 2.
A health must do....it isn't.

Maybe?

Depends on your definition of "moderate physical activity" -- for a lot of folks, this is more likely to be LISS than resistance training or HIIT.

1. Adjust energy intake and expenditure to achieve and maintain a healthy body weight. Energy balance may be achieved by combining a healthy dietary pattern with ≥150 minutes of moderate physical activity per week. Metabolic needs decrease by about 70-100 calories per day with each decade of adult life.

2021 AHA Dietary Guidance for Cardiovascular Health - American College of Cardiology

Sherrie R. Webb, PA-C

www.acc.org

 

[Adachi]

Thank you both for clarifying this for me - I have completely neglected the distinction between slow and fast fiber adaptations. In fact, I haven't gleaned this at all from reading Q&D, S&S and other material available to the hoi polloi multiple times. Apparently I don't understand SF ideas (or the underlying science) as well as I thought I do.

yeah - the idea that some slow and fast fiber adaptations are actually mutually exclusive is very briefly addressed in Q&D.
For myself, it's a detail I notice easily when listening to the audiobook
I didn't get it at all when reading it. it just renders differently.
Reading the Strong Endurance Manual Cover to Cover a few times got me most of the way there.
It's got some good cellular physiology, and muscle tissue mechanics in there.

 

[North Coast Miller]

This is a pretty good diagram. It should label the left side of “muscle activity” as type2, and the right side as type1. It also doesn’t show the outsize role of aerobic glycolysis in soaking up Pi (inorganic phosphate), or how Pi accumulation interferes with muscular contraction.

Is way more than just re-phosphorylating CrP, without it force production would drop way off after a dozen seconds and take a long time to recover.

 

[watchnerd]

Today:

Afternoon walk outside: 30 min
Evening row indoors: 20 min

It's a pretty good combo, lots of stuff gets worked, intensities vary, but not too much of any one thing.