Other/Mixed Sprinting progressions in middle age

[Steve Freides]

Most hamstring tears during sprinting occur during the late swing phase, right before the foot makes contact with the ground. This stretches the hamstring to its near maximal length while simultaneously requiring it to contract. When running uphill you have to take smaller steps, the hamstring doesn't get stretched as much.

Interesting - thanks.

It recruits more motor units because of the difficulty while slowing you down which is safer.

To me, the joy of sprinting is running as fast as you can - anything that slows me down doesn't sound like much fun.

Also, injury is often due to sudden deceleration, which is less of a problem going uphill.

When I do my Q&D-inspired sprints, I am often taking more steps in decelerating than I took in the sprint.

Yes, it is a mixture of speed and resistance training in a good way.

I think "good way" is going to be in the eye of the beholder here. Some mixtures are OK - bourbon and water works for me - but this one just doesn't sound like my cup of bourbon, er, uh, tea.

-S-

 

[Paotle]

I don't care for sprinting uphill as it feels like strength training and not sprinting, which is why I'm curious as to how sprinting on a hill reduces the risk of injury? (I have visions of doing some age-group sprinting competition sometime.)

Thanks.

-S-

I don't totally agree with the previous answers. Sprinting uphill doesn't improve speed or race mechanics. Sprinters use it sometimes (but never during long phases) to improve the push at the start, but not for speed.

Yes, it reduces the risk of harmstring injuries, but it drastically increases the risk of Achilles tendon injuries.

 

[Denys Carthusian]

I don't totally agree with the previous answers. Sprinting uphill doesn't improve speed or race mechanics. Sprinters use it sometimes (but never during long phases) to improve the push at the start, but not for speed.

Yes, it reduces the risk of harmstring injuries, but it drastically increases the risk of Achilles tendon injuries.

That's interesting. I haven't heard that before but would be interested in more information.

 

[Steve Freides]

I don't totally agree with the previous answers. Sprinting uphill doesn't improve speed or race mechanics. Sprinters use it sometimes (but never during long phases) to improve the push at the start, but not for speed.

As you might imagine, I agree with you. Sprinting uphill seems to me like strength training - could be specific strength for sprinters as you've suggested, but it doesn't feel to me like it has much to do with running faster.

Yes, it reduces the risk of harmstring injuries, but it drastically increases the risk of Achilles tendon injuries.

That was my thought as well - you're increasing the dorsiflexion angle at the rearmost foot position of every stride. I've never had either hamstring or Achilles injuries so I really can't comment from personal experience, though.)

-S-

 

[Paotle]

That's interesting. I haven't heard that before but would be interested in more information.

It's what Steve said : more dorsiflexion angle when sprinting uphill and force needed to push downards is higher when going uphill, so is ground contact. Achilles rupture is one of the most common injuries for sprinters.

 

[ali]

Sprinting is not conditionning

Yup. That's where the fog exists.

I always used hill sprints to avoid hamstring pulls.

tried it yesterday and went full blast and it was a blast

I think "good way" is going to be in the eye of the beholder here.

Sprinting uphill doesn't improve speed or race mechanics.

Illustrating the point of different models, and thus, different applications. Nothing against going for a blast, blast away, hill sprints being easier on the body allowing for a metabolic storm but if I could make a generalism, hills can apply to many aspects of this fitness thing whereas linear sprinting for speed is more specialist...for sprinters.

To add to @Paotle 's point, ground contact time is increased with hills too. As mentioned, sprinters do use them for acceleration work, tending towards quad dominance but that is caveated by....they have excellent sprint mechanics via sprint training.

It's on another computer somewhere but I have a paper from JB Morin - the only paper as far as I'm aware - of a study on master sprinters. I'll try to find it. What is it that causes a decline in speed with age? Well, ground contact time is one of the culprits.

Hill sprints, many pros certainly for generalism. Some pros for sprinters but it's not all positive. For speed? No. For speed increases with increasing age? No. For hamstring protection? Yes but there are other equally safe ways - gradual progression over time. And, according to JB Morin, maximum velocity sprinting is also hamstring protective - due to gradual exposure of high forces.

 

[Boris Bachmann]

For me, back in 2009, sprinting really did work like TRT. The results were astounding.

How old were you in 2009? (edit - I see you say 45) I mean, I guess if you aren't doing any resistance training and are sedentary (I don't know if you were at the time you started sprinting), then maybe you're going to feel like you're on TRT? Maybe...

 

[Denys Carthusian]

How old were you in 2009? (edit - I see you say 45) I mean, I guess if you aren't doing any resistance training and are sedentary (I don't know if you were at the time you started sprinting), then maybe you're going to feel like you're on TRT? Maybe...

I think the trick would be to add sprinting to S&S (sprinting 1 or 2 times a week).

 

[Denys Carthusian]

 

[guardian7]

I don't totally agree with the previous answers. Sprinting uphill doesn't improve speed or race mechanics. Sprinters use it sometimes (but never during long phases) to improve the push at the start, but not for speed.

Yes, it reduces the risk of harmstring injuries, but it drastically increases the risk of Achilles tendon injuries.

Thanks for the warning. I will pay attention to ankle mobility and warmup. I can sit in a deep squat position so I guess I am OK.

 

[Paotle]

Thanks for the warning. I will pay attention to ankle mobility and warmup. I can sit in a deep squat position so I guess I am OK.

It's not a mobility problem, but the high stress which are put on the Achilles during sprinting. I destroyed my 2 tendons during my sprinting years because of... sprinting and some plyometric work. I was a HS sprinter and the coaches were good. It's just my body couldn't cope with that. Mobility was always fine.

 

[Paotle]

It's on another computer somewhere but I have a paper from JB Morin - the only paper as far as I'm aware - of a study on master sprinters. I'll try to find it. What is it that causes a decline in speed with age? Well, ground contact time is one of the culprits.

Hill sprints, many pros certainly for generalism. Some pros for sprinters but it's not all positive. For speed? No. For speed increases with increasing age? No. For hamstring protection? Yes but there are other equally safe ways - gradual progression over time. And, according to JB Morin, maximum velocity sprinting is also hamstring protective - due to gradual exposure of high forces.

The paper is this one: Sprint Acceleration Mechanics in Masters Athletes : Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise

And yes, JB Morin and Kenny Guex advocate sprinting (flat, not uphill) to prevent harmstring injuries, because the stress is high and the body become more resilient.

 

[ali]

Well found. I may well be getting mixed up with another study... it's an age thing! And it was a few years ago...

 

[Steve Freides]

Sprint Acceleration Mechanics in Masters Athletes : Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise

A nice take-away from near the beginning of this paper - will be no surprise to most of us here:

Sport participation is an important component of healthy aging. Although strength (e.g., weightlifting) and endurance (e.g., long-distance running) activities are often recommended and studied in healthy elderly individuals (31), sprint running is also endorsed for practice and competitions. ... Because training and competing for sprint running requires strength, power, coordination, flexibility, and many other fitness components, sprint running has recently been considered an equivalent model (compared with endurance) for maintaining recommended levels of physical activity with aging (20). For instance, it has been shown that older trained sprinters (70 yr) possess very similar maximal isometric knee extensor force and rate of force development capabilities compared with younger (40 yr) yet sedentary individuals.

Bold above was added by me to emphasis this important point.

This point, in actual data, is similar to one presented in a video by Mike Israetel (sp?) I saw a week or two ago - he said a good goal was to reach age 80 with the physical capabilities of an untrained 30-year-old. (Paraphrasing from memory here.) As I meander through my late 60's, I aim to reach a higher standard than either of the two mentioned above, but I guess we'll have to wait and see. 80 is a ways off for me, but 70 - God willing and the creeks don't rise - is a year and a few months away.

-S-

 

[Denys Carthusian]

It was well known that Walter started every single day doing hill sprints.

Hill sprints will not only help you burn more fat and build stronger and more powerful legs, but it will push your mental limits to the extreme.

Mental toughness is exactly what a record-setting NFL running back like Walter Payton needed to be a champion.

There is a hill in Arlington Heights, Illinois known as “Payton’s Hill”. It was this hill where every morning Walter Payton would show up and push himself to the brink.

When it came to the off season, Walter pushed himself even harder by returning home to Mississippi.

Near where Walter grew up, he built an obstacle course on the banks of the Pearl River. In the middle of Summer, Walter could be found running sprints on the beach during the hottest part of the day. Think about that the next time you complain when you have to do a single burpee in an air conditioned gym away from the elements.

You may not be going out for any NFL teams this year, but if you’re looking to get shredded for summer, there is no better way to torch your body fat than by running hill sprints.

 

[Denys Carthusian]

Based on the variety of responses here I would say the only way this is going to be settled is for Pavel Tsatsouline to do a 4 year deep dive rabbit hole exploration of the biomechanics and biochemistry of hill sprinting, so 2027 here I come.

 

[Denys Carthusian]

I'd also like to hear from Keats or Franz Snideman as to what they think, as I believe they train master's sprinters.

 

[Denys Carthusian]

It's not a mobility problem, but the high stress which are put on the Achilles during sprinting. I destroyed my 2 tendons during my sprinting years because of... sprinting and some plyometric work. I was a HS sprinter and the coaches were good. It's just my body couldn't cope with that. Mobility was always fine.

Curious if any of Ben Patrick's Knees Over Toes stuff would have helped.

 

[Steve Freides]

Based on the variety of responses here I would say the only way this is going to be settled is for Pavel Tsatsouline to do a 4 year deep dive rabbit hole exploration of the biomechanics and biochemistry of hill sprinting, so 2027 here I come.

I don't think we're in disagreement. Hill sprints help with a sprinters start because they are running-specific strength training. But they also aren't a mainstay of most sprinters' training other than for working on one's start.

-S-

 

[Denys Carthusian]

I don't think we're in disagreement. Hill sprints help with a sprinters start because they are running-specific strength training. But they also aren't a mainstay of most sprinters' training other than for working on one's start.

-S-

Yes, but I'm also very greedy and want Pavel to devote a huge chunk of his life to my personal pet interests.