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Other/Mixed Strength Versus Technique in Martial Arts

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
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Striking is much more technique specific. The acceleration portion is fairly low strength stuff in all reality as it is generated by total body movement. Once the strike is in motion, most strikes rely on relaxation and allowing the speed to develop, you cannot power through with as much force as can be generated by letting momentum kick in - tightening up only with the striking surfaces. If you practice speed for real, you have to be hitting something or you'll give yourself joint problems, so some conditioning no matter.

That said, a more muscular person with greater limb mass will hit harder even with somewhat lesser technique - up to a point. But that's not necessarily greater strength.

And then the body isn't really designed to strike as hard as one can learn to execute. Even among well trained MMA fighters, broken metacarpals are not uncommon and I'd not like to see the stats on wrist issues/torn ligaments in the wrist or osteoarthritis down the road.

Taken to an extreme example of technique vs strength, watch some video from a Dog Brothers meet and you'll see that size and strength have even lesser bearing in many matches - taking a back seat to speed and timing, especially in small blade matches. When it comes to most sport MA, strength is far more important than more reality based combat training.

The one constant across most MA, sport or otherwise, is grip strength.
 
This makes sense. There were a few very strong weightlifters/football players who showed up at the club over the years and were better at grappling than blackbelts due to sheer strength, mass, and also physical intelligence from their weightlifting. However, these guys were especially strong and fit. Other than them, I didn't care who showed up, everyone was just totally useless at fighting no matter their fitness levels nor strength.

I suppose I'm thinking about people who already are fairly skilled at fighting, and in this case, strength becomes all important as the differentiating factor.
 
Hello,

@Kozushi
Kozushi said:
strength becomes all important as the differentiating factor.
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I think you are right. Between to people who have the same skills (fighting techniques), the stronger one will have an advantage.

I think technique can compensate a lack of strenght,to some extent.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
From my experience assuming equal skill, timing is the decider with speed being perhaps the wildcard. Good timing/instincts can make up for a lack of technique, strength and raw speed to some extent.

Timing and instinct being mostly a product of experience and inherent qualities.

Speed being mostly a product of conditioning and technique.
 
What it seemed like to me is that people hit a wall in terms of further skill development - there's only so smart you can get and only so fast even. After that it's up to the stronger guy. I remember us senior guys going at it and everything depended upon how much energy we had in a given day. I wouldn't say we were equal in our skill - in fact I was the worst regarding technique, but we were all so close after 30 years of fighting each other. Then it depended upon strength. When fighting skilled guys we didn't know this made things depend even more upon strength, as both sides would simply launch into their attacks and the stronger one would carry the day first.
 
Hello,

I guess technique is easier to maintain on a long-term perspective than strength. For instance, you can train you karate techniques until 90 years old and still be respectable in fighting due to your mastery.

However, at 90, I suppose you can not deadlift or heavy swing anymore.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
"However, at 90, I suppose you can not deadlift or heavy swing anymore."

Again, I believe it comes back to striking or softer technique vs grappling.

When I was training at Silver's Gym there was an 80 year old former boxer - Ozzi Sussman "the Jewish Buzzsaw" who came in almost every day.

He could still make the heavy bag go slack on its chains with a body hook, yet had all but stopped lifting any sort of weights. It would have hurt to get slugged by him even at that age. Jump rope and heavy bag kept him in shape, and he also offered self defense instruction as he'd trained some traditional JuJitsu and combined it with his boxing.

The man who was training my instructors in Kali was much older, also not physically powerful but no doubt could still clear a room with one stick.
 
I think I posted earlier in this thread about it probably depends on the martial art in question to some extent. I have had a similar experience to what @North Coast Miller just posted. Many years ago I played Kendo. I was much younger, stronger, and pretty fit. (Or so I thought...) It's pretty humbling to be thoroughly beaten by some guy approaching 80.(over 40 years my senior!!) I'm dripping sweat, gasping for air, and bruised all over. My sensei isn't even breathing heavy. And try as I might I could not land a single significant strike against him.
 
It seems there's more to consider than simply strength or technique. As I understand, technique is the form used when executing a move. You can be taught a punch and make it look pretty good in a fairly short time but there a number of other attributes that contribute toward whether it lands such as timing, distancing, reactions, etc.
 
This is an epic revival of an old thread, but it seems like the most suitable place to be posting this.

A mates car was in for repairs until today so he asked me to drive him to his BJJ class on Saturday arvo. I thought I may as well go in & sus it out & I was offered a free first lesson. I said no but my mate and the guy running the show were very persuasive, so I relented and had a crack at it.

The put me with a white belt (smelly Gi guy) for the first roll and he was hopeless, he also seemed quite weak so it I had it all over him. The next white belt was considerably better (more experienced) but I had about 15 kg's on him, so that was fairly easy too.

Then they wanted to put me with a blue belt and I wasn't too keen, I've read a lot about BJJ and I know by the time you attain a blue belt you have know your stuff. I was a bit concerned about injuring my dodgy knee but they promised to go easy on me and eventually talked me into rolling with the blue belt.

I only know a few basics of BJJ, mount, guard, half guard and a few basic escapes and joint locks (I have a mean kimura), so this guy should have had it all over me. Because of all the missing ligaments in my knee the guard position puts my knee in a very precarious position, so my preferred guard is a half guard. He didn't have an answer for the half guard and I found I could escape without too much trouble whenever he tried a mount. I was also much stronger than that guy, so the combination of something he wasn't expecting and a stronger opponent had him at a loss. He tapped out about 4 times to every one of mine.

If they put me with a black belt it would be a totally different story as I just wouldn't have the skill set to deal with that sort experience even if I was stronger but for the lower grades my upper body strength took me a lot further than I expected.

I've played a lot of rugby league which I believe helped a lot, I was used to tackling and wrestling guys over 50 kg's heavier than myself so grappling a little guy weaker than myself wasn't a wake up call like it would be to a complete novice.

I've also done a lot of karate and some Japanese ju jitsu in the past, so I knew what I was in for. It was also a bit weird to be grappling with someone who wasn't actively trying to kill or maim me, almost every time I've been in a fight and it went to ground only one of has walked away and the other was carted off by an ambulance. It was a bit like cuddling your Aunty in that respect.

So I think strength comes into play in several phases, in the novice or beginner phase if two guys are similar in size and weight the strong guy will have a big advantage almost every time. Then in the stages between novice and black belt technique can overcome an otherwise equally matched or even a stronger opponent. Then when you get to the expert stage where everyone has great technique strength comes back into play.
 
Pavel Macek said:
My Chinese masters say:

If you practice only techniques and ignore strength and conditioning training, you won´t achieve anything even if you practiced your whole life.

And they also say:

“If you don't practice techniques, your martial arts training will be like a boat without oars”.
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Was this your master?

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:)
 
@Waffles03 Actually, Hung Man Ding, the son of one of our ancestors, killed this Master (Taoist priest White Eyebrows, Baak Mei)
 
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