Kettlebell The Fallacy of the Heavy Kettlebell Swing

[J Cox]

100% agree with the article. For most men, a 70 or at most an 88 is the max weight they should use before the kettlebell is controlling them. I would rather have someone knock off 20 explosive swings with a 70 then 5 sloppy swings with a 106 that they can barely get up to their crotch.

But, but, but, Bryan, what if someone sees you not slinging around the beast. Showing that kind of weakness gets you eaten in the wild. Just find the biggest bell you can and fake it until you make it -- or something breaks.

 

[J Cox]

In all honesty I can swing the beast with one hand and have plenty of power go into it. When I first attempted it, however, it was mushy to say the least. I had to swing it with two hands for a while but eventually got it to where the two-handed swings were launching with good snap. So I have worked at it to the point now I can throw down a hard snap with one-handed swings of the beast. If your immediate need is getting power, then, yes, you definitely should back it down.

 

[BrianCF]

But, but, but, Bryan, what if someone sees you not slinging around the beast. Showing that kind of weakness gets you eaten in the wild. Just find the biggest bell you can and fake it until you make it -- or something breaks.

I did the S+S test with the 88 and was able to pass it without ever running that program. My legs had the shakes after the swings. Unlike you, I have 2 less kettlebells than before. Last summer I sold my double 88's for more money than I bought them for.

Strong work with the Beast. I'll stick with the 70's at this point.

 

[watchnerd]

I did the S+S test with the 88 and was able to pass it without ever running that program. My legs had the shakes after the swings. Unlike you, I have 2 less kettlebells than before. Last summer I sold my double 88's for more money than I bought them for.

Strong work with the Beast. I'll stick with the 70's at this point.

I have to remind myself that some of you guys talk KBs in pounds....

 

[J Cox]

I have to remind myself that some of you guys talk KBs in pounds....

Yeah, I catch myself going between KGs and pounds within the same post.

 

[Fraser]

Naturally, the 48 kg is more difficult.

But whether it's actually generating more *power* than the 32 kg bell is hard to know without instrumentation and measuring.

For me, when I've measured using PUSH:

--For dead-stop cleans from the floor straight to rack position (no back swing), my power output scales up to my max 2 x 40 kg bells

--For swings, my power output peaks at 2 x 32 kg bells. 2 x 36 or 2 x 40 generate less power, for me, because the acceleration is declining faster than the weight is increasing.

So in my case, 2 x 36 or 2 x 40 swings are definitely more difficult than 2 x 32, but they're not more powerful.

This means that 2 x 40 kg is a "fast grind" for me, not a power training tool.

Is there a reason for me to do a "fast grind" with a kettlebell?

I'm not sure there is. I could get analogous results by doing high reps of 80+ kg Romanian Deadlifts with a barbell, but it's more time efficient to just go heavier than that.

In the absence of measurements, what is the best way to tell max power kettlebell weight? Thanks

 

[watchnerd]

In the absence of measurements, what is the best way to tell max power kettlebell weight? Thanks

Math using swing height and KB weight.

 

[Pete L]

Math using swing height and KB weight.

Don't forget time.
Power equals energy per unit time.

 

[watchnerd]

Don't forget time.
Power equals energy per unit time.

He said he didn't have measurements, so I assumed he can't accurately measure time.

He'd just have to plug in a constant.

 

[Pete L]

He said he didn't have measurements, so I assumed he can't accurately measure time.

He'd just have to plug in a constant.

I was thinking he meant an accelerometer like the PUSH strap.
How will he know the height? Were you thinking relative height?
Fortunately the bells have the mass stamped on them ?

 

[watchnerd]

I was thinking he meant an accelerometer like the PUSH strap.
How will he know the height? Were you thinking relative height?
Fortunately the bells have the mass stamped on them ?

Yes, relative height.

Just plug in some hypothetical values.

 

[Pete L]

Yes, relative height.

Just plug in some hypothetical values.

Without time you can only calculate energy though.

 

[watchnerd]

Without time you can only calculate energy though.

Of course you need time.

Just model it however you want.

If you're lazy, just hold it constant (for non pathological weights, it's not going to vary a lot, anyway, compared to mass and height).

If you want to get really fancy, use trig to model an arc using height and arm length.

 

[Pete L]

In the absence of measurements, what is the best way to tell max power kettlebell weight? Thanks

These two articles put an estimate at 30 to 40% bodyweight;

Kettlebells and Deadlifts Go Together Like Vodka and Pickles | StrongFirst

If you've never deadlifted but have been swinging a kettlebell you're ahead in the deadlift game. The hip hinge means kettlebells and deadlifts go together.

www.strongfirst.com

How to Boost Your Athletic Power with Kettlebells...and a PUSH Band | StrongFirst

Develop power with hard style kettlebell training. Learn why, which exercises are the best, and how to get started with velocity-based training.

www.strongfirst.com

@Steve W. has repeatedly argued it is the heaviest bell you can swing. Ultimately it will be a function of how strong you are in the swing.

 

[watchnerd]

These two articles put an estimate at 30 to 40% bodyweight;

@Steve W. has repeatedly argued it is the heaviest bell you can swing. Ultimately it will be a function of how strong you are in the swing.

Well, in my case, those articles and SteveW's assertion come out the same.

I weigh 103 - 104 kg right now.

My "big bells" are 32 kg, 36 kg, and 40 kg = 30% - 40% of my bodyweight

(although I have doubles from 32 kg on down)

 

[Opiaswing]

I've had quite a lot of experience with swings and have always liked the idea of having one really bell just for swings as a staple. During that period I've had 48kg, 56kg, 64kg, 70kg and 80kg. Settled on the 56kg and I'm now even considering going back down to the 48kg.

One large benefit of kettlebells is the versatility and as long as you're getting some heavy work in somewhere, there's probably more benefits to doing faster, higher rep, better form swings as opposed to super heavy. For example I'm finding now heavier swings are just making recovery more difficult from heavy double cleans and snatches.

I'm haven't had time to catch up on how the discussion has gone thus far but that's my 2c!

 

[Steve W.]

@Steve W. has repeatedly argued it is the heaviest bell you can swing.

With the important qualifier that the swings are of equal height and all else is roughly equal. And with the related assertion that given a swing to an equal height, the speed of the swing and total time for a rep will not vary significantly and will have a much smaller effect than the weight of the bell.

Ultimately it will be a function of how strong you are in the swing.

Yes, which another reason that I think the %BW idea is questionable. Lifters of the same bodyweight can vary tremendously in strength and skill.

But even though I've commented on this topic repeatedly, I have come around to the view that it's actually not that important in my programming or bell selection for my training.