Kettlebell The Quick and the Dead - MegaThread
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Xene
Level 6 Valued Member
Q&D and A+A
Doing heavy snatches A+A style for quiet a time now but I am highly interested in the new protocols.
Anyone already thought about combining Q&D Pushups/Swings with heavy A+A snatches on different days per week?
Something like: 2x Q&D / 2x A+A / 3x heavy deadlifts (low reps)
Doing heavy snatches A+A style for quiet a time now but I am highly interested in the new protocols.
Anyone already thought about combining Q&D Pushups/Swings with heavy A+A snatches on different days per week?
Something like: 2x Q&D / 2x A+A / 3x heavy deadlifts (low reps)
Costas
Level 4 Valued Member
Thank you Steve!
Sean M
Level 7 Valued Member
I posted an "annotated summary" on my training log:
https://www.strongfirst.com/community/threads/sean-ms-training-log.8165/page-27#post-246897
It's an enjoyable read, well written and logical organization. It should be read carefully to not read into it what it's not arguing or saying. It's definitely not for beginners.
I look forward to follow-up articles, particularly on the nuances with S&S and Q&D, is 10x10 in 30:00 the Q&D "Program Minimum" that even beginners could follow?, and the other times Pavel mentioned follow-up discussion or things that were outside the scope of the book - in particular, a glycolytic peaking aspect of 30-60 second duration sets/intervals to prep for something like the snatch test.
https://www.strongfirst.com/community/threads/sean-ms-training-log.8165/page-27#post-246897
It's an enjoyable read, well written and logical organization. It should be read carefully to not read into it what it's not arguing or saying. It's definitely not for beginners.
I look forward to follow-up articles, particularly on the nuances with S&S and Q&D, is 10x10 in 30:00 the Q&D "Program Minimum" that even beginners could follow?, and the other times Pavel mentioned follow-up discussion or things that were outside the scope of the book - in particular, a glycolytic peaking aspect of 30-60 second duration sets/intervals to prep for something like the snatch test.
Bauer
Level 8 Valued Member
I would love to listen to a podcast Q&A with Pavel, similar to the one he did one the Tim Ferriss show.
I would like some discussion of the following topics:
I would like some discussion of the following topics:
- Combining Q&D with other types of training and especially other SF programs (DDD, PTTP, Easy Strength, Reload,...). Similar to the discussion in Tactical Barbell Conditioning.
- Comparison with S&S and A+A, and the different benefits and applications of each
- Other power exercises for Q&D (including machines etc) and their potential risks: Dips, Pullups, Jumps, Hill Sprints, Battlerope Waves, Sledge Hammer, Velo Sprints, SkiErg Sprints...
- Application of the Fast 10s every 3 minutes
- Which kind of testing protocols did not work
ali
Level 7 Valued Member
@Sean M... A nice write up! I've jot got the book yet so really can't comment.
Liking the reference that it is not dogmatic, that it is nuanced with the focus on health primarily.
And ' the event horizon' is a really good analogy of the trade off between health and performance.
I sprint competitively. My general training fits broadly with my limited understanding of the ideas discussed but goes into the singularity at times.
And this is where perhaps nuance is lacking, in a lot of things health-ey, fitness-ey and becomes binary, in or out, yes or no. As context is often neglected in favour of deep rooted beliefs this is the event horizon of consensual understanding.
So looking forward to reading it and application.....already though in disagreement about fasted training! Haha.....not good, for me, through my speed lens and the supermassive black hole event horizon that I observe.
But we have a consensus to eek out the details and operate theoretical frameworks to generate hypothesis.... No one knows or understands what happens beyond the event horizon.
Keep snatching and observing.
Liking the reference that it is not dogmatic, that it is nuanced with the focus on health primarily.
And ' the event horizon' is a really good analogy of the trade off between health and performance.
I sprint competitively. My general training fits broadly with my limited understanding of the ideas discussed but goes into the singularity at times.
And this is where perhaps nuance is lacking, in a lot of things health-ey, fitness-ey and becomes binary, in or out, yes or no. As context is often neglected in favour of deep rooted beliefs this is the event horizon of consensual understanding.
So looking forward to reading it and application.....already though in disagreement about fasted training! Haha.....not good, for me, through my speed lens and the supermassive black hole event horizon that I observe.
But we have a consensus to eek out the details and operate theoretical frameworks to generate hypothesis.... No one knows or understands what happens beyond the event horizon.
Keep snatching and observing.
Oscar
Level 7 Valued Member
I have just completed the book and really liked it. It seems to deliver good results at a low cost.
Like many other posters above, I'm a bit confused about if it's a stand alone program or what can it be done with.
Let's say Q&D is the power portion of one's training. It takes about 60 min per week so it leaves a lot of room for strength or endurance. Which would be the dos and don'ts?
I would set it up like this:
Mon wed fri - Q&D + easy strength ala Tactical Barbell
Tues thru sat - easy jog below maf.
Would this be ok? Is this how the program is designed to be used?
Like many other posters above, I'm a bit confused about if it's a stand alone program or what can it be done with.
Let's say Q&D is the power portion of one's training. It takes about 60 min per week so it leaves a lot of room for strength or endurance. Which would be the dos and don'ts?
I would set it up like this:
Mon wed fri - Q&D + easy strength ala Tactical Barbell
Tues thru sat - easy jog below maf.
Would this be ok? Is this how the program is designed to be used?
Maine-ah KB
Level 7 Valued Member
okay disclaimer this is my opinion, please know that I'm just a dude who lifts and I am no expert.
@Xene so I would advice against mixing A+A and Q&D, their close enough that I think you would progress in both poorly. Read Each Chooses for Oneself, it advices staying on Q&D for a while then switch to A+A.
@Oscar Easy strength and Jogging seems to be probably would work quite well. i might make any other pushing and hinging super easy until you know how you react to Q&D. but TGU, Squat's and Pull ups probably would fit nicely.
@Xene so I would advice against mixing A+A and Q&D, their close enough that I think you would progress in both poorly. Read Each Chooses for Oneself, it advices staying on Q&D for a while then switch to A+A.
@Oscar Easy strength and Jogging seems to be probably would work quite well. i might make any other pushing and hinging super easy until you know how you react to Q&D. but TGU, Squat's and Pull ups probably would fit nicely.
Oscar
Level 7 Valued Member
Yes, that makes sense. Maybe front squats, military presses and pull ups ala easy strength
Sean M
Level 7 Valued Member
@Maine-ah KB I think that is the right answer.
Provx
Level 5 Valued Member
Like others i think the main point that needs to be addressed is when to run q&d compared to the other programs.
It has been established a basic outline is obtain simple, then hit q&d, the onto a+a . But what is a good timeframe to work on a+a until either working in another round of q&d or going after sinister?
Some sort of rough outline like simple,q&d, a+a For a few months, s&s with 40kg, q&d again, a+a, sinister would be helpful.
Again im mostly confused as to how long to wait after completing q&d should one wait until cycling back to it
It has been established a basic outline is obtain simple, then hit q&d, the onto a+a . But what is a good timeframe to work on a+a until either working in another round of q&d or going after sinister?
Some sort of rough outline like simple,q&d, a+a For a few months, s&s with 40kg, q&d again, a+a, sinister would be helpful.
Again im mostly confused as to how long to wait after completing q&d should one wait until cycling back to it
Maine-ah KB
Level 7 Valued Member
So I've been thumbing through and found in the back of the book at the end of the Strong Endurance seminar info and foot notes section that after the first 12 weeks of Q&D alternating between Q&D and A+A every 6 weeks is effective.
_EJ_
Level 5 Valued Member
Just finished reading the book, interesting read for sure.
This may be a dumb question, or maybe I missed it while reading, but is there a reason why Q&D is only a 2 or 3 day a week program other than it being minimalist?
Whereas something like simple and sinister is almost daily.
Thanks, just curious
This may be a dumb question, or maybe I missed it while reading, but is there a reason why Q&D is only a 2 or 3 day a week program other than it being minimalist?
Whereas something like simple and sinister is almost daily.
Thanks, just curious
ClaudeR
Level 6 Valued Member
Just read the kindle version quickly (and I will reread it countless times), but on first sight I think it is one of the most comprehensive books Pavel has ever written!
It’s got all the makings of Pavel, is a very good read, and one can’t help but notice the many years of deep study and experimentation that has gone into it!
If I may issue a suggestion, I think the book will leave a lot of beginners wondering if S&S is still valid/the best way to start (I personnally think the simple standard is almost a prerequisite for even trying to understand the Q&D program).
So I think an article of explaining the similarities and certainly the differences in adaptations (and why S&S is still very much applicable) would be of tremendous help, as otherwise I think there will be endless questions around this
It’s got all the makings of Pavel, is a very good read, and one can’t help but notice the many years of deep study and experimentation that has gone into it!
If I may issue a suggestion, I think the book will leave a lot of beginners wondering if S&S is still valid/the best way to start (I personnally think the simple standard is almost a prerequisite for even trying to understand the Q&D program).
So I think an article of explaining the similarities and certainly the differences in adaptations (and why S&S is still very much applicable) would be of tremendous help, as otherwise I think there will be endless questions around this
Sean M
Level 7 Valued Member
@Eric Brueckner I believe it says 2 days is fine, 3 is better, 4 is point of diminishing returns.
I think the reason is: Q&D is power training (and a form of anti-glycolytic training) and S&S is somewhere to the right of it, with a metcon pukefest on the right side of the spectrum. S&S day-to-day is mostly anti-glycolytic (“talk test”), though the 5:00 test or biweekly nonstop swing session is more on the right of the spectrum.
Also, there is a discussion on flipping a coin (train/don’t train) six days out of seven. Averages out to 3 days.
I think the reason is: Q&D is power training (and a form of anti-glycolytic training) and S&S is somewhere to the right of it, with a metcon pukefest on the right side of the spectrum. S&S day-to-day is mostly anti-glycolytic (“talk test”), though the 5:00 test or biweekly nonstop swing session is more on the right of the spectrum.
Also, there is a discussion on flipping a coin (train/don’t train) six days out of seven. Averages out to 3 days.
LejonBrames
Level 5 Valued Member
I'm definitely curious if this too. Interesting it was not touched on in the book either. I'm curious if 2 days QD and 2 days SS, alternating would be an effective program. I don't see anything in either one that would take away from the other, but maybe someone more knowledgeable than me can chime in on that.
Of course keep the goal the goal and all that aside.
LoneRider
Level 6 Valued Member
Just got the Kindle edition of the book and am doing my first read. I'm currently glad I've just started a barbell based 5/3/1 cycle and am committed for the next few months until it is completed before I attempt Q&D. This gives me time to really assess the program, and how to go about doing it.
conor78
Level 6 Valued Member
HIIT versus HIRT
Very useful article by Craig Marker that ties in with the theory behind some of the Q and Q approach
Very useful article by Craig Marker that ties in with the theory behind some of the Q and Q approach
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