Other/Mixed Training For Martial Arts Strength/Endurance Tests

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
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WhatWouldHulkDo

Level 7 Valued Member
Striking sports aren't really "contact sports" as you are not holding onto the opponent, and so your system isn't wiped out in the same way. I could be wrong as always, this is just what I think I've felt over the past 4 years with S&S and judo together.

I think that's true - striking arts are more about sudden burst of maximum energy, as opposed to the sort of continuous grind that comes with grappling arts. And as such, it would make sense to train them differently, on and off the mat.


Just an aside - I am loving this thread.
 

North Coast Miller

Level 8 Valued Member
Thanks again guys. Great feedback.

My actual martial arts training is 2-3 days a week. The school also offers a HIIT-type strength and conditioning class that includes heavy bag work, core exercises, bodyweight strength, etc. 3 other days a week. Classes last about an hour and are pretty challenging.

Would you recommend these classes in addition to S&S and regular martial arts training or is that too much? I notice lower back pain when I'm training too often, mainly when we're training bjj


That sounds like too much. HIIT session should take less than 15 minutes, you should feel recovered very quickly when its done. It is strictly to improve lactate threshold and overall endurance, it is not a strength session.

High intensity resistance stuff like traditional metcons will compete with your MA training and any other strength training you do, and is somewhat redundant in your case.
 

sharp423

Level 1 Valued Member
Also, as far as LSD training what do you recommend for weekly frequency and duration? Is there a point where the focus should shift to improving speed?
 

WhatWouldHulkDo

Level 7 Valued Member
I don't feel qualified to recommend frequency/duration, but I don't think you would ever focus on improving speed. The goal with LSD is to improve cardio capacity at steady state. Just let it build you a bigger gas tank, and let your martial arts training build the engine.
 

Pavel Macek

Level 9 Valued Member
Master Certified Instructor
In your experience, is something like the red line below possible if your athletes had more frequent competitions?
View attachment 7950

MMA? No. Anybody who has fought "just" amateur fight, 3x3 minutes, knows. It is tough. I usually recommend our pro fighters (3-5 5 minutes rounds) to have 2-3 fights/year max.

Generally - regardless the sport, I would say the graph would not be that steep. More frequent competition means you will be happy to maintain sort-of-peak (nowhere close to the peak of a fighter who competes less frequently) - and it applies to all sports. The higher the peak, the longer the prep, and the less frequent competition.
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
Also, as far as LSD training what do you recommend for weekly frequency and duration? Is there a point where the focus should shift to improving speed?
LSD does not seem to drain anything from your body other than time. I used to walk to my martial arts gym, so about 75 minutes both ways, back when I was poor. LSD doesn't drain you except at the very start of this kind of training when your body has to adapt to it.

From my own direct non-scientific experience, three walks of 75 minutes a week seemed to keep me in very good condition, so basically every second day for this long. Less time is okay too if your schedule is tight. I also had a 50 minute route which I would do more like 5 times a week.

What the walking does for me is to give me a baseline of cardio capacity and endurance as well as one of balance, strength and alertness, which costs about zero effort, interferes not at all with hard judo or MMA/BJJ training, and to boot is just a happy, relaxing, fun, endorphin releasing thing to do.

It's kind of a turtle versus the hare thing to me. Slow and easy does it. Even when walking was my only non martial arts exercise I was known as very strong.

I think the logic is that it maintains a low-moderate level of strength, athleticism and endurance without making you sore or tired. This is its secret. Is it enough? Obviously not! Do your S&S, your heavy lifting, your martial arts classes! But something that is sort of easy like walking, when done for long enough does start to get to be a tougher activity. This is why my walks are for 75 minutes, or at the minimum for 50. It's like S&S swings - it's only 32kg we're swinging, but we do it 100 times! There is a cumulative effect, and this makes lighter easier exercises tougher and stronger and better for you as endurance activities. Even the humble walk fits into this category.

I had a friend who got 4th at the Olympics in wrestling. His basic training advice was to keep running and running, "If you're staying on your feet you ain't falling down" he would say. Working up to tournaments (and as an amateur I'd have about a half dozen a year, not just one or two) I'd definitely get my butt outside for some runs! Running is good too, but harder to do. Walking is the excellent old reliable.
 
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sharp423

Level 1 Valued Member

Pavel, thank you for your training suggestions. I’m going to stick to what you’ve laid out in the article for s&c with s&s.

Do you recommend all fighters reach 36kg in getups before adding 10x10 presses as workout B? I’m lighter than Viktor Pesta, around 160-165 pounds. My own “peak” would only be once a year for next level belt testing. This year probably around July
 

Steve Freides

Staff
Senior Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
A special thank you to @Pavel Macek for his participation in this thread. As some of you may know, Pavel has been the S&C coach for successful fighters - he knows of what he speaks.

My own limited experience with competitions that are close together is simply that you try to maintain your level - there really isn't any such thing as peaking in successive, close together competitions unless the first one(s) really aren't peaks.

-S-
 

ali

Level 6 Valued Member
A recent study here:

The Effect of Short-Term Sport-Specific Strength and Conditioning Training on Physical Fitness of Well-Trained Mixed Martial Arts Athletes


....which seems to suggest this:

"A 4-week low volume, high-intensity strength and conditioning training program, designed according to the demands of MMA, results in large improvements of MMA related fitness parameters, in well-trained MMA athletes."

versus a non specific design, that is.

A lot of discussion points for those interested in martial art training in the study!
 

North Coast Miller

Level 8 Valued Member
Hmmm, the testing metrics were pretty much the same as the STG training protocol, which should be a major no-no in any comparative study. Other things that stand out:

The RTG exercises were not really done with loads or TUT to elicit the best response, but just a very generic circuit done at relatively high rep count. Almost as if the loading were selected specifically to fit the planned time slot. All around much better exercise selection for STG group and done with heavier loads. It would have been nice if the programs had a little more similarity.

Surprising to see the RTG group actually lost aerobic fitness doing 20 minutes of jump rope 3x/week, I wonder what were they doing before the study?

HIIT rowing training may be more suitable than long duration rope skipping when the aim is to improve aerobic fitness.
Can't argue with this, at least to some extent. Sure looks like it had a good effect on fat%.

There were 10 in the STG group and only 7 in the RTG group, possibly leading to larger % changes if one of the participants notably underperformed in the RTG group.

Nice read, not sure what the take-away is aside from not using metcony type circuits as your basic strength routine. And sprints and sleds are good medicine!
 
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