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Kettlebell Way to tell when power drops in swings; any guesses?

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I'm a big fan of "internalizing" the sensations and feelings of the body. I think one of the most useful things about technology as it's applied to kettlebell work would be the concrete measurements bringing you actual data that you can at least correlate with the sensations of your body (RPE, RPD, heart rate, breathing, etc...). Once you've got those things down, let go of the equipment. Or don't use it at all.

I used to be big in getting the "right" gear to support my athletic endeavors, but now I've let that go as well. For me, as with most supplemental things to actual training, they threaten to become the main dish instead of seasonings.

Think of this like cooking a steak. Given the right cut of meat, you can learn to cook a perfect steak using a digital thermometer with a remote control app and temp display on your phone, but you can cook a pretty darn good one based on the feel the steak, timing, attention and heat source. So for now, I just need to enjoy my steak with some kosher salt and let the steak speak for itself :) .
 
piratebum said:
Oh well what?
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"Oh, well" meaning that "low tech" is cited as a definitional principle of StrongFirst, and this focus on a technological device to measure things that can both be assessed subjectively and built into programming without being directly measured seems inconsistent with that profession of principle.
 
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Steve W. said:
"Oh, well" meaning that "low tech" is cited as a definitional principle of StrongFirst, and this focus on a technological device to measure things that can both be assessed subjectively and built into programming without being directly measured seems inconsistent with that profession of principle.
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and what is the purpose of pointing this out?
 
As someone who is very familiar with both the PUSH device/platform and the Strong Endurance protocols (I have followed the protocols for a couple years and used the device for a year), the PUSH Band was a tremendous compliment to the StrongFirst AGT methodology. The PUSH Band and Portal captured my baselines and showed the effectiveness of following the protocol via the post protocol tests or my shortcomings when improvising, running too low on sleep, not replenishing my body with the most nutritious food sources, enjoying too much/many/frequent craft brews, etc...

In short, the PUSH Band is a tool just like the kettlebell. Both are better when paired with the message found here.
 
Steve W.
As someone with extensive experience teaching and developing the "High concept, low tech" curriculum and as someone that tends to be tech and data averse - I can tell you that the PUSH band provides info that enhance the high concept and awareness aspects of our training.
and adding a bit of Tech to the protocols and training is a progression to assist in the application of the protocols and techniques not a contradiction IMO.
Holding to your principles does not mean being "imprisoned" by them.

Heart rate monitors provide info via a piece of tech and these have been easily integrated.

Hope that helps
 
If the cost were lower- say maximum $100 but with a SF discount to $80 I might consider buying one. But at that cost- I will stick with my heart rate monitor and reviewing videos of my efforts.
 
Brett Jones said:
Steve W.
As someone with extensive experience teaching and developing the "High concept, low tech" curriculum and as someone that tends to be tech and data averse - I can tell you that the PUSH band provides info that enhance the high concept and awareness aspects of our training.
and adding a bit of Tech to the protocols and training is a progression to assist in the application of the protocols and techniques not a contradiction IMO.
Holding to your principles does not mean being "imprisoned" by them.

Heart rate monitors provide info via a piece of tech and these have been easily integrated.

Hope that helps
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I have nothing against technology, and can actually see where this device could be useful.

My comment was partly an attempt at tongue in cheek humor, but I had a non-facetious point as well. If you (speaking generally of the organization, not necessarily Brett as an individual) profess a belief in "low tech," enough to include it in a mission statement in the biography of the founder, then it seems to me you should take it seriously. Low tech is low tech. IMO, an expensive electronic device (and one that isn't directly a training implement) doesn't qualify.

So what is holding to your principles and what is being "imprisoned" by them? If you find your stated principles imprisoning, then get new ones you can hold to.

Pavel's genius is synthesizing research and reverse engineering proven practice (high concept), and delivering them in the most accessible way possible (low tech). It's baked into the StrongFirst mythology that Pavel has created. If you're going into space, you can spend millions building a pen that works in zero gravity...or you can use a pencil. Easy endurance? Sure you can use a heart rate monitor...or you can run with a mouthful of water.

If research shows that pushing until velocity decreases has undesirable effects and you want to avoid them, can you do that in a good enough way without an expensive high tech device? Are there subjective markers you can pay attention to? Is there a simpler, low tech, alternative? Can you program to avoid the drop off in velocity (such as shorter sets and more rest)? Is your philosophy to jump on the newest gadget (even a legitimately useful one) or to get a similar result without it?

Again, I have nothing against accelerometers or heart rate monitors. If StrongFirst (or any individual) wants to go in the direction of exploiting these technological devices, I have nothing against that either. But there should be some self-awareness about it being a change in direction for StrongFirst, and there shouldn't be rationalization about why it isn't.
 
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I wonder if the fuel and oil gauges, odometer and tachometer were received the same way when added to the automobile.... To me, I would never consider driving a vehicle without it. Not a necessity, but certainly a great use of technology.
 
Having dabbled in endurance sports I have probably measured, tracked, counted, graphed, reported, analysed, charted, and misunderstood more metrics than most of SF people combined (endurance people are notorious techies) ROFL
The important takeaway: none of it made any difference over the long term.

Data points are good, nothing against tech, it can teach you some things, but in the end almost everyone I ever talked to reverts to going mostly by feel. Unless they are on the top end of their sport (being paid for their athletic endeavours).

Can data be useful? Oh absolutely!
At this pricepoint? Depends on your goal.
Honestly something that measures a single data point for a limited number of exercises (that in the SF methodology are self-limited) is not something I would consider worth this price (or the hassle and headache trying to make use of the data)
 
Shawn Reed said:
I wonder if the fuel and oil gauges, odometer and tachometer were received the same way when added to the automobile.... To me, I would never consider driving a vehicle without it. Not a necessity, but certainly a great use of technology.
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Not the same thing, is it?
The analogy is really replacing analog gauges (talk test, going by feel, RPE, etc) with external digital ones... nothing against that per se, if it is someones thing
 
In reference to the article, is it really a big deal if power fades for the last few sets by a small amount? Is there a legitimate downside to this?

In my understanding, I wouldn't think that a few sets of lower power swings at the end of my session are going to significantly change the training stimulus in a negative way.
 
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Here in New Zealand- there is a attitude called 'Tall Poppy Syndrome'- basically, it refers to the general habit of cutting down anyone who tries to do something new or is successful etc. I don't want any of my (less than positive) comments on the 'When am I Tired' device to fall into this syndrome.

I commend Strongfirst for trying to sell something new and obviously to add some profit into the company. Well done, there is undoubtedly a market for this tool- and I wish Strongfirst the best of luck on positive sales. If I was in the Sales & Marketing department I would develop an adjustable Kettlebell that was like the Babushka Doll- each time you unscrewed the Kettlebell, there would another, smaller Kettlebell. Now that would be cool. I'd buy that.
 
KIWI5 said:
If I was in the Sales & Marketing department I would develop an adjustable Kettlebell that was like the Babushka Doll- each time you unscrewed the Kettlebell, there would another, smaller Kettlebell.
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Or even develop a simple way to add 4 or 8 kg onto any kettlebell in a way that does not interfere with use of the 'bell.
 
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