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Kettlebell What am I missing or doing wrong?

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Abraiz

Abraiz

Level 4 Valued Member
Hi friends.

I do swings. Well, not as regularly as I want to, but do them. A good way for me to stay on track is to pick those 6 week programs of swings and follow them through. One thing I have noticed is that even when I am doing S&S or these sort of programs pretty regularly, I get winded very easily. Like climbing up a few flights of stairs winds me easily. Now all those programs are what you knowledgeable folks call A+A. The 6 week programs start from like 10 mins and go up to 25 mins or thereabouts. Never above 30 mins. When I do S&S, it is like 10 mins of swings per day (thrice a week). Aren't these kind of programs supposed to make me (more aerobic and) less winded doing other sort of activities? I haven't done any running or biking or even martial arts (courtesy Covid) of any sort while on these programs.

Am I supposed to supplement swings with running/walking?
Am I supposed to swing for 20 mins+ daily? But that wouldn't be S&S any more, would it?

Please tell me where I am messing up. Any and all advice appreciated.

Thanks in advance.
 
Abraiz said:
when I am doing S&S or these sort of programs pretty regularly, I get winded very easily.
Click to expand...

Abraiz said:
When I do S&S, it is like 10 mins of swings per day (thrice a week)
Click to expand...

When I first started S&S I had a lot of discomforts while adapting. I'm pretty sure I didn't start my progression from the 16kg bell to the 24 kg bell till at least 6 weeks from when I started swinging.

I understand that there are no prescribed times for S&S outside the talk test. However, 10 minutes could be a bit fast. I have some experience with timing my swings and getups without being able to observe the clock and checking a stopwatch afterward. my swing portions varied from 18 minutes all the way up to ~40 minutes for 10x10. I happened to be training almost daily, which happens to be something I want to get back to.

also, I appreciate that many people train Alactic - using EMOM. I tend towards 90 seconds or 120 seconds intervals to feel fresh before the next set of 5 for some kettlebell weights myself.

my experience with closely monitoring the step loads is that I start out in grease the groove territory, in the first week, I get into A+A time territory during the middle two weeks, and then in the last week or so of the step load - I start to close in on about 90-second increments. . there were definitely days - while I was practicing ownership of the 24kg bell after my 6th week or so using that bell exclusively where the rest periods naturally compressed even closer to 10x10 in 10 minutes, or less. Never 5 in my case, but that's neither here, nor there.

Maybe take the talk test a bit more seriously and err on the side of caution till you're more completely recovered, and see how that goes. I never quite took to every minute on the minute training myself, as the loading still seems a bit too dense for me, I can barely do it now with the loads many others do. and that's after a couple of years of training, and confirming simple, myself.

I hope this is helpful. rest more if you can. practice more often if you can. even with the 32kg bell, I'm still trying to find a way to get back to a daily moderate training routine. it was definitely the most favorable schedule, of all; in my experience.
 
@Adachi makes great points here. Experiment with taking more time between swing repeats. You can also drop down the number of swings per repeat and do more of them.

You need more aerobic work too. Swings do not necessarily build an actual aerobic base. Brisk walking for 45-60 min at least 2-3x per week or more is a great place to start. If you can’t get outdoors, you could also do something like the outstanding article @Kenneth Bolyard wrote, “Step Up” Your Adventure Training. This will build a great aerobic base and train your legs too.

Be patient. Adaptations take time.
 
@Abraiz

@Adachi and @Ryan T both make good points…

Adaptations of any kind (especially ‘aerobic’) take time.

You (like many) no doubt have some form of ADS (aerobic deficiency syndrome). Don’t worry though. Many people that routinely do ‘endurance’ training such as running and cycling also have this.

LED (Long Easy Endurance) locomotive work is the cure. Walking, rucking, EASY running are the prescription. But it takes time.
 
Thanks for your replies
Adachi said:
When I first started S&S I had a lot of discomforts while adapting. I'm pretty sure I didn't start my progression from the 16kg bell to the 24 kg bell till at least 6 weeks from when I started swinging.

I understand that there are no prescribed times for S&S outside the talk test. However, 10 minutes could be a bit fast. I have some experience with timing my swings and getups without being able to observe the clock and checking a stopwatch afterward. my swing portions varied from 18 minutes all the way up to ~40 minutes for 10x10. I happened to be training almost daily, which happens to be something I want to get back to.

also, I appreciate that many people train Alactic - using EMOM. I tend towards 90 seconds or 120 seconds intervals to feel fresh before the next set of 5 for some kettlebell weights myself.

my experience with closely monitoring the step loads is that I start out in grease the groove territory, in the first week, I get into A+A time territory during the middle two weeks, and then in the last week or so of the step load - I start to close in on about 90-second increments. . there were definitely days - while I was practicing ownership of the 24kg bell after my 6th week or so using that bell exclusively where the rest periods naturally compressed even closer to 10x10 in 10 minutes, or less. Never 5 in my case, but that's neither here, nor there.

Maybe take the talk test a bit more seriously and err on the side of caution till you're more completely recovered, and see how that goes. I never quite took to every minute on the minute training myself, as the loading still seems a bit too dense for me, I can barely do it now with the loads many others do. and that's after a couple of years of training, and confirming simple, myself.

I hope this is helpful. rest more if you can. practice more often if you can. even with the 32kg bell, I'm still trying to find a way to get back to a daily moderate training routine. it was definitely the most favorable schedule, of all; in my experience.
Click to expand...
Would you please elaborate a bit how you train the swings?
 
Abraiz said:
Like climbing up a few flights of stairs winds me easily.
Click to expand...
You know, I'm a reasonably fit/strong guy, I swing kettlebells and run regularly... but for some reason climbing stairs just gets me. I go up a flight about about 20 stairs on the way to my desk at work, and every time my legs are starting to burn a little when I hit that last step. I couldn't tell you what it is, but something about a flight of stairs exposes a weak point for me.

Regular LED is definitely a great pairing with swings, if your goal is building work capacity. But, I'd also say, just be careful about believing the hype. Your training will have carryover into other disciplines, but don't expect it will make everything "easy".
 
WhatWouldHulkDo said:
You know, I'm a reasonably fit/strong guy, I swing kettlebells and run regularly... but for some reason climbing stairs just gets me. I go up a flight about about 20 stairs on the way to my desk at work, and every time my legs are starting to burn a little when I hit that last step. I couldn't tell you what it is, but something about a flight of stairs exposes a weak point for me.

Regular LED is definitely a great pairing with swings, if your goal is building work capacity. But, I'd also say, just be careful about believing the hype. Your training will have carryover into other disciplines, but don't expect it will make everything "easy".
Click to expand...
Switch to Bruce Banner first? Less load to carry...
 
Pete L said:
Try nasal breathing.
I've just started reading the Oxygen Advantage having seen it recommended on the forum numerous times.
Click to expand...
+1 to nasal breathing and reading The Oxygen Advantage. You might have your relaxed/daily breathing wrong and therefore get winded too easily because of a lack of CO2 tolerance.
 
Thanks for all replies.

Climbing stairs without huffing and puffing is not something that I wish to work on. I was just looking at this as being indicative of my general fitness.

Lots of interesting things here. What is my takeaway from this?

Include running and walking in the week.

What next? That I can push my swing reps beyond 10 reps or keep them lower than 10 reps and do more reps and rest more? The daily number of swings can go beyond 100? I am still a little confused about this part. Please advise.

Thanks.
 
Abraiz said:
Thanks for all replies.

Climbing stairs without huffing and puffing is not something that I wish to work on. I was just looking at this as being indicative of my general fitness.

Lots of interesting things here. What is my takeaway from this?

Include running and walking in the week.

What next? That I can push my swing reps beyond 10 reps or keep them lower than 10 reps and do more reps and rest more? The daily number of swings can go beyond 100? I am still a little confused about this part. Please advise.

Thanks.
Click to expand...
Well…. Doing anything different won’t be S&S, but so what; at the end of the day that doesn’t matter.
What matters is what your training goals are, and is your training aligned within those goals?

So the question back to you is what are your reasons for training (goals)?
 
So the question back to you is what are your reasons for training (goals)?
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To improve my general fitness for life, majorly, and for martial arts, minorly. Use kettlebells in a way that doesn't interfere with barbell strength training when I pick it up again. This is why I want to use kettlebells.
 
There are of course dozens of ways of approaching vague goals such as general fitness, but I think if you stick with S&S as written, and add in some LED running, and a healthy dose of patience you will be a long way towards your goal…
(doing S&S properly will in no way interfere with barbell strength training when you start again… check out the history of @Anna C )
 
Abraiz said:
Thanks for all replies.

Climbing stairs without huffing and puffing is not something that I wish to work on. I was just looking at this as being indicative of my general fitness.

Lots of interesting things here. What is my takeaway from this?

Include running and walking in the week.

What next? That I can push my swing reps beyond 10 reps or keep them lower than 10 reps and do more reps and rest more? The daily number of swings can go beyond 100? I am still a little confused about this part. Please advise.

Thanks.
Click to expand...
Generally, I believe the respondents on this thread are trying to say that swings may not be the best thing to increase your aerobic capacity or “fitness” to go up steps. It can help of course because any increase in fitness should have at least some carryover benefit. You would be better served, however treating aerobic base building as it’s own thing separate from swinging.

As far as programming your swings are concerned, I wouldn’t go above 10. You can certainly bump up to >100 per day but again, I think your best bet to increase aerobic fitness is to train that quality.
 
offwidth said:
Something you want to address?
We all have ‘weak points’. Kinda hard to tackle them all…
Click to expand...
Exactly right, and that's kind of my point... GPP is good stuff, but it just can't cover everything...

Maybe someday I'll do a block of stair or step-up training for fun... maybe chase @LoriLifts up a building or something

Pete L said:
Switch to Bruce Banner first? Less load to carry...
Click to expand...
Or alternatively, eat less cheeseburgers ?
 
@WhatWouldHulkDo @Abraiz
I'll track down a helpful video later that explains why even good runners sometimes get out of breath walking up stairs in their everyday life.

Basically, you're probably not breathing right when you "mindlessly" walk up the stairs just going about your everyday life. You can run an easy test. Take some nice purposeful breaths. Now walk up the stairs.

If you're relatively fit, I bet you won't be out of breath :)

The key is to learn to breathe purposefully by default
 
WhatWouldHulkDo said:
Exactly right, and that's kind of my point... GPP is good stuff, but it just can't cover everything...

Maybe someday I'll do a block of stair or step-up training for fun... maybe chase @LoriLifts up a building or something


Or alternatively, eat less cheeseburgers ?
Click to expand...

Watch Saturday Night Live Clip: The Olympia Restaurant: Cheeseburger, Chips and Pepsi - NBC.com

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offwidth said:
@Abraiz

@Adachi and @Ryan T both make good points…

Adaptations of any kind (especially ‘aerobic’) take time.

You (like many) no doubt have some form of ADS (aerobic deficiency syndrome). Don’t worry though. Many people that routinely do ‘endurance’ training such as running and cycling also have this.

LED (Long Easy Endurance) locomotive work is the cure. Walking, rucking, EASY running are the prescription. But it takes time.
Click to expand...
Hello , what would a program geared toward increasing aerobic capacity look like?Sort of like a “program minimum” for aerobic capacity using the modalities you mention above, Thank you for the help
 
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