Jeff Roark
Level 7 Valued Member
Thanks Steve. I would much rather have been a teacher and be able to play the piano. I'm sick of the violent environment. I will be done with that forever come May!
Other/Mixed Why Hypertrophy?
- Thread starter Adachi
- Start date
Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
Adachi
Level 7 Valued Member
An update today after about 5 months of this.
It would seem that I am still making progress.
I've been including specific hypertrophy work approximately once a week. (sometimes twice a week.)
Excepting a couple of weeks in January when I fell ill.
I do upright rows for side delts and curls for the biceps.
Today in particular I feel compelled to share a detail I never saw coming.
Since last fall after eating extra between Thanksgiving and Xmas, my weight went from 245 -> 265 -> 255 lbs.
I'm currently "stuck" at 255 (since January) with slightly bigger shoulders and arms and about the same waistline.
My 48, and 40 kg bell for upright rows, and the 32kg bell for curls today.
I like the way the towel allows me to position my hand to pull the weight.
I like the way the towel allows me to position my hand to pull the weight.
It would seem that I am still making progress.
Yesterday my son was in the kitchen asking me for a snack and - perhaps out of a sense of flattery (or at least how flattery will get him everywhere with his mother) he proceeded to compliment me about how big my "muscles and biceps" are.
I've been including specific hypertrophy work approximately once a week. (sometimes twice a week.)
Excepting a couple of weeks in January when I fell ill.
I do upright rows for side delts and curls for the biceps.
Today in particular I feel compelled to share a detail I never saw coming.
I was doing my usual focused hypertrophy work, and I was shaking my arms out. I felt something I'd never felt before. I was shaking my arms out after a set and I felt the pull and tug of some "excess" mass on my shoulder kinda ... Jiggling ...
I could feel the pull of the mass pulling oppositely about the rotation of my loose arm. I realize that it's the mass of my deltoid (which is not yet anything to write home about). It was completely foreign to me, and it's a new sign of progress. the look of my shoulders has long benefited from the mere distance between my shoulders being a little wider than usual. But, in due time, as I continue with moderate weekly training, they're becoming more distinguishable.
Since last fall after eating extra between Thanksgiving and Xmas, my weight went from 245 -> 265 -> 255 lbs.
I'm currently "stuck" at 255 (since January) with slightly bigger shoulders and arms and about the same waistline.
Last edited:
Ricky01
Level 6 Valued Member
Jonrotten
Level 2 Valued Member
It went great, got stronger every week by 2-10% based on the exercise for a good 8 months. I am trying a super slow protocol now to see if there is any benefits in general of for bjj. Still one set to failure just longer time under load and slower cadences.
Adachi
Level 7 Valued Member
I was reflecting on the logs for my hypertrophy strength sessions. my shoulders and biceps are growing.
I have been going by feel, largely, as to how these sessions are going.
I'm averaging 113 kg increase per session which is really about once weekly or so. some twice a week, but mostly once a week.
I went from using the 32kg for sets of 10 with the upright row (shoulders) to using the 48kg bell for a set of 10.
And I've gone from using the 32kg bell for sets of 5 for curls to using the 32kg bell for a set of 10 plus backoff sets, some days.
I have been using a top set for the first set and including back-off sets based on feel.
I have used as few as 1 set for the day, and as many as 5 total sets per session.
It isn't clear to me that I can do anything to speed this process up.
The recovery between sessions has been indistinguishably similar. whether I've done a single all-out set - or used structured sets and included backoff sets. I estimate that has a lot to do with my low levels of development, and there might be occasions to revisit reps and sets later on in training; after I'm more developed.
I'm more content (that the trajectory is positive) than interested (in how steep the progress is). so, that's a caveat, I guess, on how I'm evaluating this progress.
I have been going by feel, largely, as to how these sessions are going.
I'm averaging 113 kg increase per session which is really about once weekly or so. some twice a week, but mostly once a week.
I went from using the 32kg for sets of 10 with the upright row (shoulders) to using the 48kg bell for a set of 10.
And I've gone from using the 32kg bell for sets of 5 for curls to using the 32kg bell for a set of 10 plus backoff sets, some days.
I have been using a top set for the first set and including back-off sets based on feel.
I have used as few as 1 set for the day, and as many as 5 total sets per session.
It isn't clear to me that I can do anything to speed this process up.
The recovery between sessions has been indistinguishably similar. whether I've done a single all-out set - or used structured sets and included backoff sets. I estimate that has a lot to do with my low levels of development, and there might be occasions to revisit reps and sets later on in training; after I'm more developed.
I'm more content (that the trajectory is positive) than interested (in how steep the progress is). so, that's a caveat, I guess, on how I'm evaluating this progress.
Kenny Croxdale
Level 7 Valued Member
Mentzer
It was developed with the Traditional Multi Set Bodybuilding Protocol which has been around for decades. It was and still is how Top Bodybuilder train today because it works.
Research has demonstrated that Multi Set is more effective than Jones' HIT Method.
With that said, HIT has it place in training for individual with limited time. However, no Pro Bodybuilder uses HIT. No Pro Bodybuilder has made it into the upper echelon with solely performing HIT.
Doreen Yates worked with Mentzer after reaching the top with Traditional Bodybuilding Hypertrophy Training.
The Nautilus Colorado Experiment with Casey Viator, when he gain muscle mass/weight with HIT, is misleading. Viator reached the top via Traditional Bodybuilding.
For some reason Viator, stopped training, lost weight prior to the Colorado Experiment. He then regained his weight and physique back.
The same is true with Strength Athletes.
Last edited:
Kenny Croxdale
Level 7 Valued Member
OverTraining
This is usually driven with good intensions who push it beyond the limit.
The end result is, as with you, in OverTraining your shoulders, injury, a stall in progression and eventually losing ground and going backwards.
Training Intensity
One of the things HIT did demonstrate is that Training Intensity is one of he keys to progress.
Periodization Training
A well formulated Periodization Training Program Cycle needs to pushed near or to the limit in the final week of training, OverReaching.
Then a New Periodization Training Program with need to be begun.
Wound Healing
The greater the trauma the greater/longer the recovery period need to be.
Individual who achieve OverReaching during training and then who push into OverTraining end up losing ground, injuries like you shoulder issue, etc.
Last edited:
bluejeff
Level 7 Valued Member
Perhaps I am misunderstanding something but it seems to me you are developing just fine! You seem to pretty consistently make gains. What’s not developed?
Adachi
Level 7 Valued Member
Yeah, I am progressing fairly reliably in strength and ability, which I think is a huge net positive.
The development level I appeal to is a visual observation. I don't have anything resembling "20-inch arms".
I'm very happy with my strength levels for most of what I do. I can carry the kids a long way. One of my favorite things is that my RPE for carrying my 90+ lbs son, is lower now, than when I was carrying my son at ~80 lbs. before. ). I can move around branches and rocks on the little one-acre lot relatively easily. And I have been able to negotiate moving furniture successfully without much help.
Specifically, getting 20-inch arms isn't where my interest lies. To one extent or another, I seek to "look the part" of being "big and strong". Where my delts end and my triceps begin is very hard to see sometimes. when I bend my arms, it isn't always visibly clear that there's a bicep muscle between my shoulder and forearm doing the work. but, progress is being made in either regard.
I guess I feel like my chest and triceps look better, but my shoulders and biceps are disproportionately smaller, in my view. So, to present that I am "big and strong" better I'm including some size-specific targeted training, for now; specifically for shoulders and biceps.
I'll reiterate, that I am more than satisfied with my strength and abilities as they serve my daily life more than adequately. However, It is (maybe unfortunately) the case, that I am affected by how my kids perceive me, visually. so, given where I'm at I'm working on adjusting that positively.
North Coast Miller
Level 9 Valued Member
Not much to add since this is really your experiment/training block, but I will say that when it comes to hypertrophy, exercise selection matters. Make sure the movements you are doing hit the muscles you want to see grow - esp shoulder and upper back. The way the scapula functions is fairly complex, as is the muscle activation per movement.
I've run a lot of quasi hypertrophy programs using different modes and accompanying exercises. I've watched how directly this influences the final product.
Adachi
Level 7 Valued Member
Indeed, exercise selection, and apparently execution definitely help determine the outcome.
I've been using a peculiar version of these exercises, and it works well enough I suppose.
while I'm not a huge fan of whether pump/congestion/burn specifically indicates growth definitively, I do use it to gauge whether I've been successful at targeting a certain muscle. so I'm glad that when I shake and move between sets I can sense stiffness and discomfort where I was hoping to induce stress.
I've been happy to use a towel to help pull the kettlebell vertically up, it allows me to pronate the hands. and I've found that with the palms supinated it increases the front delt involvement and the pronated hands decrease the share of work distributed onto the front delts. consequently, it helps increase the concentration of the load on the medial delt.
also, the towel allows me to practice supinating the wrists during the curl. I'm not sure how much that matters, versus a straight bar or an easy curl bar. but it's something I do. twist the wrists from a neutral hand position to supinated, on the way up in the curl.
I'm definitely "Limited" by my equipment (a few kettlebells and a towel), but my shoulders and biceps have been getting bigger over time. I was thinking today, and I think when I notice results start to slow down, I'll think about specializing in the kettlebell row for a while to try and focus on the rear delt. there will be devils in the details about which muscles are targeted; given selection and execution.
North Coast Miller
Level 9 Valued Member
If doing a one arm row, the variant I use with sandbag has my upper body no further angled than 45⁰. I try to keep my arm between elbow and hand straight to the floor to reduce bicep contribution.
The rest is all scapular, full pull up through the shoulderblade, at the top finish with a shrug. I do not use my off hand for support. These work great with the added drop of a sandbag or kettlebell.