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Kettlebell Why is S&S boring?

HUNTER1313

Level 6 Valued Member
I know I'm not the only one, but why do we find S&S boring? When I was doing the Giant I looked forward to the clean and press (push press). I never once found it boring. I looked forward to it. S&S on the other hand I dread doing it. I don't know why.
 

ShawnM

Level 9 Valued Member
I think for me it is the same each and everyday. When I was doing ROP with ladders of presses and pull ups there was something a little different each session whether it was a different number of rungs or ladders or the amount of swings/snatches at the end of my presses and pull ups. 10 x 10 swings and 10 TGU's does get the job done as far as basic strength and conditioning but doing the same thing day in and day out can get a bit boring. With Q&D, even though it is just snatches or just swings and push ups it can be mixed up in the rep scheme and rest periods from session to session. S&S works well and it is easy to see the progression as time goes on, I look at it as a kettlebell version of PTTP with just the deadlifts and the press, you get results, it's just a touch mind numbing getting there.
 

oab

Level 5 Valued Member
The answer is here:

Kettlebell - Why S&S isn't boring

A lot of ideas...
I often add a press and or a windmill at the top of TGUs. If the TGUs are tough as I have increased weight then a set of presses or pushups afterwards. Or just go back to TGUs

After swings and before hangs I do a couple of sets of pullups with a hang to finish each set... The original S&S just includes the hangs but this works fine. If I feel the TGUs have given me enough work laready then I just hang.

That article has many ideas on what you might do. There is also the KB Strongfirst (TGU,Swi, Sq) dvd and pdf at BJJ Fanatics which has ideas in it as well. The thread above has enough information to keep going for a while.

Good luck in your training.

NB- I should mention I train mainly for health and longevity. Improvements are nice but a secondary effect. These goals influence my approach.
 
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blad51

Level 6 Valued Member
Sheesh, it seems like we have a Simple and Sinister is boring thread every few weeks.

If you don't like the program......don't do it.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But it is not the program's fault you are bored.

S&S is a minimalist program that delivers proven results if one is disciplined enough to commit to the program.

If we are truthful with ourselves, ALL training is boring to some extent. We're after the results of the training, not the programing.

S&S excels at providing folks who are new to KBs (or getting serious about KBs) time to develop their technique. When one accomplishes Timed Simple, there is a solid foundation of strength to accomplish other strength goals and programs.
 

HUNTER1313

Level 6 Valued Member
The answer is here:

Kettlebell - Why S&S isn't boring

A lot of ideas...
I often add a press and or a windmill at the top of TGUs. If the TGUs are tough as I have increased weight then a set of presses or pushups afterwards. Or just go back to TGUs

After swings and before hangs I do a couple of sets of pullups with a hang to finish each set... The original S&S just includes the hangs but this works fine. If I feel the TGUs have given me enough work laready then I just hang.

That article has many ideas on what you might do. There is also the KB Strongfirst (TGU,Swi, Sq) dvd and pdf at BJJ Fanatics which has ideas in it as well. The thread above has enough information to keep going for a while.

Good luck in your training.

NB- I should mention I train mainly for health and longevity. Improvements are nice but a secondary effect. These goals influence my approach.
I forgot about that thread.
 

John K

Level 7 Valued Member
Certified Instructor
I know I'm not the only one, but why do we find S&S boring? When I was doing the Giant I looked forward to the clean and press (push press). I never once found it boring. I looked forward to it. S&S on the other hand I dread doing it. I don't know why.
Have you considered working with someone to go over your goals and to set up a template that'll help you work towards them? I find being bored with a program - or not sticking with one consistently - is often because it is mismatched with what my goals actually are. There is often a difference between what your goals are and what you say your goals are (what you want them to be). When my goals and a template/program align - all the sudden I am not bored, I am focused, I am consistent.
 

HUNTER1313

Level 6 Valued Member
Have you considered working with someone to go over your goals and to set up a template that'll help you work towards them? I find being bored with a program - or not sticking with one consistently - is often because it is mismatched with what my goals actually are. There is often a difference between what your goals are and what you say your goals are (what you want them to be). When my goals and a template/program align - all the sudden I am not bored, I am focused, I am consistent.
No I haven't. It's so cliche, but isn't most people's goals to be healthy, strong, and look good naked? I would like to beat the beast by my forty-eighth birthrite day (which is two and a half years away).
 

Archer

Level 5 Valued Member
I started with S&S 4-1/2 years ago and did nothing else for the first 18 months.
I never got bored as I was seeing progress. After I achieved the timed protocols for 36 kg I finally hit the wall with the 40kg.
I worked up to 6 getups with the 40 and I did manage to do 100 swings doing 20 sets of five. My grip wanted to give after about six sets of 10. I never got bored, I just finally hit the wall. Always wanted for get back to it though.
That about the time I started doing some Geoff Neupert programs.
 

HUNTER1313

Level 6 Valued Member
I was thinking of splitting it up. Swings in the morning and getups after work. Breaking it up might make it a little more bare able as I'll be one and done in and out.
 

watchnerd

Level 8 Valued Member
I was thinking of splitting it up. Swings in the morning and getups after work. Breaking it up might make it a little more bare able as I'll be one and done in and out.

I tried it and found it made it even worse for me.

"Ugh...I still have to go back and do my get ups later......again.....just like yesterday."
 

HUNTER1313

Level 6 Valued Member
I tried it and found it made it even worse for me.

"Ugh...I still have to go back and do my get ups later......again.....just like yesterday."
Well that sucks. So probably not worth trying then? Do you think running it swings one day and getup the next would remedy this? Like program minimum
 

guardian7

Level 6 Valued Member
I know I'm not the only one, but why do we find S&S boring? When I was doing the Giant I looked forward to the clean and press (push press). I never once found it boring. I looked forward to it. S&S on the other hand I dread doing it. I don't know why.

The Giant workouts feel more challenging. Also, because it is waved, even the early days can feel like a welcome rest and buildup to prepare for the heavy day. S&S is valuable but more of a punch the clock workout for most to use a Dan John term. I would never risk a one rep max getup or even a set to failure. Risk-reward ratio is poor. With Gian heavy days, I stopped as close to technical failure in the final set as possible.

However, Pavel has never said only to do S&S as I posted in a recent similar thread. I have not even considered doing only S&S.

Honestly though, I can't really understand going for sinister when you could just do snatches after you have solid one arm swings and have met the simple criteria. Snatch test results would likely be a better return on investment than sinister for most people.
 

watchnerd

Level 8 Valued Member
Well that sucks. So probably not worth trying then? Do you think running it swings one day and getup the next would remedy this? Like program minimum

I've had good results running it in an A/B fashion with a C&P or C&P/FSQ program like Giant or DFW.

But at that point, you're not really doing S&S.
 

watchnerd

Level 8 Valued Member
The Giant workouts feel more challenging. Also, because it is waved, even the early days can feel like a welcome rest and buildup to prepare for the heavy day. S&S is valuable but more of a punch the clock workout for most to use a Dan John term. I would never risk a one rep max getup or even a set to failure. Risk-reward ratio is poor. With Gian heavy days, I stopped as close to technical failure in the final set as possible.

However, Pavel has never said only to do S&S as I posted in a recent similar thread. I have not even considered doing only S&S.

Honestly though, I can't really understand going for sinister when you could just do snatches after you have solid one arm swings and have met the simple criteria. Snatch test results would likely be a better return on investment than sinister for most people.

+1 to pretty much all of that.

Once you get past the novice phase, it's hard to think of reasons to limit oneself to perfecting just 2 moves.
 

tomstranger

Level 7 Valued Member
When I was doing S&S every day I took it as an opportunity to really become a student of the swing and TGU. They seem simple, but mastery still eludes me.
I’m reminded of this famous Winston Churchill quote, just substitute “S&S” for “English” and I think it matches my thoughts pretty well-
By being so long in the lowest form I gained an immense advantage over the cleverer boys. They all went on to learn Latin and Greek and splendid things like that. But I was taught English. We were considered such dunces that we could learn only English. Mr. Somervell -- a most delightful man, to whom my debt is great -- was charged with the duty of teaching the stupidest boys the most disregarded thing -- namely, to write mere English. He knew how to do it. He taught it as no one else has ever taught it. Not only did we learn English parsing thoroughly, but we also practised continually English analysis. . . Thus I got into my bones the essential structure of the ordinary British sentence -- which is a noble thing. And when in after years my schoolfellows who had won prizes and distinction for writing such beautiful Latin poetry and pithy Greek epigrams had to come down again to common English, to earn their living or make their way, I did not feel myself at any disadvantage. Naturally I am biased in favour of boys learning English. I would make them all learn English: and then I would let the clever ones learn Latin as an honour, and Greek as a treat. But the only thing I would whip them for would be not knowing English. I would whip them hard for that
 
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