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Kettlebell Single vs Double Handed Swing Height

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rayyagloski

rayyagloski

Level 4 Valued Member
Certified Instructor
All,

I was wondering if anyone could explain how or why double handed swings float higher compared to single arm.

Take a 24kg swing. Two handed - no problem getting to chest height. Single arm - more difficult.

My question is if you are not using your arms for the swing then why does it matter if it is single or double handed? If technique is rock solid and your grip is not the weak point then I would argue it wouldn't be different. What other factors am I missing?

I think where I may be struggling in my own training is my hinge may not be the same for my single and double handed swings? Obviously the grip is also challenged more on the single arm swings. I just find myself unable to generate as much power on the single arm swings.

Any insight would be helpful. Thanks. Hopefully my questions are clear enough.

Thank you!

Ray
 
A big difference between the 2-handed vs 1-handed is the anti-rotation aspect- your body has to counteract the off-balance loading with the 1-handed. On one side only, the 'bell wants to twist you around as it swings out. This puts more emphasis on packing the shoulder, using the lats, and a rotational load on the obliques and core, down into the hips and legs. One thing you've noticed is grip can serve as a limiting factor for the system. When you're not comfortable with the grip, it's hard to get a maximal effort. There's a lot of materials already on this forum about developing first the 2-handed swing, then transitioning to the 1-hand, mostly by working them in gradually to your sets as you get a stronger grip and better ability to counteract the rotation. Goal is to keep the hinge the same for both, as you get stronger by transitioning gradually. You could also go back in weight for the 1-hand and increase capacity that way.
 
Matts said:
On one side only, the 'bell wants to twist you around as it swings out.
Click to expand...

This makes the glutes have to work harder in 1 handed swings because they are working in both the sagittal and transverse planes. In 2 handed swings, you are only working in the sagittal plane. That's why you usually feel the glutes opposite the bell working harder, they are keeping the hip from internally rotating while at the same time providing hip extension.
 
Matts said:
A big difference between the 2-handed vs 1-handed is the anti-rotation aspect- your body has to counteract the off-balance loading with the 1-handed. On one side only, the 'bell wants to twist you around as it swings out. This puts more emphasis on packing the shoulder, using the lats, and a rotational load on the obliques and core, down into the hips and legs. One thing you've noticed is grip can serve as a limiting factor for the system. When you're not comfortable with the grip, it's hard to get a maximal effort. There's a lot of materials already on this forum about developing first the 2-handed swing, then transitioning to the 1-hand, mostly by working them in gradually to your sets as you get a stronger grip and better ability to counteract the rotation. Goal is to keep the hinge the same for both, as you get stronger by transitioning gradually. You could also go back in weight for the 1-hand and increase capacity that way.
Click to expand...

In my opinion and experience, grip security is the main explanation for why two-handed swings seem more powerful. The rotational aspect works both ways -- you can USE the rotation to generate power in the one-arm swing. Hard style form discourages this and prescribes the intention of staying as squared up as possible, but no one is going to be able to remain truly squared up with any substantial bell weight.

But when your grip is not as secure it absolutely acts as a limiting factor for the system. Your nervous system will inhibit you from expressing more power than it subconsciously thinks (which might be an oxymore, but whatever) your grip can handle.
 
+1 to it being a grip issue. When your grip gets stronger, you will be more explosive with your one hand swings. When that happens, you will see that the float is essentially the same either way. For proof, do some one hand swings with a lighter bell.
 
I think subconsciously your brain doesn't allow you to use maximum force when your grip is to weak, because it "knows" that you wouldn't be able to handle it.
 
The single handed grip issue is especially true if, like me, you do S&S in the kitchen. The subconscious knows that if my grip fails it will be very, very expensive and the grief I'd get from my good lady wife would be indescribable. Bone chilling fear sets in and the swing is thus limited.
 
I get the same height either or. Get some towel hangs in to get your grip stronger. 90 second farmers walks with two 24kg will do the trick too.
 
i get the same height with both, between chest and eyes - if you are not getting the recommended height out of your single arm swings the culprit is typically your hip hinge. many people do not get a sufficient hike with single arm swings, could be a grip issue, or a technique issue, but you must get a good hike with the bell, a strong push back with the hips and an aggressive clamping of the glutes on the drive forward, this is imperative and admittedly it is easier for me to drive me hips, tighten me abbies and squeeze me arse with doubles, but it cannot be neglected with singles. if the hip drive is strong the bell will rise.
 
Paul Sellers said:
The single handed grip issue is especially true if, like me, you do S&S in the kitchen. The subconscious knows that if my grip fails it will be very, very expensive and the grief I'd get from my good lady wife would be indescribable. Bone chilling fear sets in and the swing is thus limited.
Click to expand...

I am in the EXACT same scenario. Also, when I do cleans or snatches indoors my brain will not, no matter what I do, let me catch the bell at the bottom lightly/in the hooks of my fingers. It's death grip right on top of my calluses or nothing.
 
@MattM - yeah because quick expensive floor tiles are not happy expensive floor tiles - they are cracked expensive floor tiles and the spare room is full of junk...
 
Not fool proof but I have full sheet of 1/2 inch OSB plywood between me and the floor when I am training. I have "tossed" 24 kg bell several times and though a couple times it did ULP!!!!! hit the wall of my apt, it had already bounced off the plywood first, expending much of its energy so no damage. Also, floor is concrete w/ thin pad+carpet (apartment) so quite probable I would have cracked/broken the concrete and maybe ripped the carpet on some of those drops if the plywood had not been there.

$14 well spent and thank you Georgia-Pacific

And still I do notice that my posterior chain just is not generating same power when grip feels less solid as in singles w/ the 24 vs two handed grip
 
More strength is spent controlling & fighting rotation with a heavy one-hand swing.
When it gets sufficiently heavy the tendency is to use one glute over the over because the bell is controlling and twisting you. As you get stronger you learn to use both glutes more equally and the bell will float higher. When your single arm fights the bell from rotating outward it has the effect of restricting the float as well.
 
Grip was a big limit for me as well in getting to Simple. I found some easy grip work was a real help:

--GTG with the Captains of Crush, once every hour or so at work
--Farmer's walks with the 32k, 40k, or both, after the S&S simple
--Light chalk for one hand swings with the 32k and 40k. My bells are very slick. so this was really useful.

Once my grip was better, I felt like a brake was removed, and I could concentrate better on bell height, consistent power, etc. I did this pretty late in my Simple quest, and I think I would have progressed faster if I had done it sooner.
 
Thanks for all the information, everyone!

Now that I am hearing these explanations, I know on my left hand swings that the height is not as high and I rotate a bit more whereas on the right side (my stronger hand), I feel more powerful and produce more direct force forward with my glutes. So the grip is definitely tied in with the power of the swing.

One more question while we are at it. When is chalk warranted? On the other end of the spectrum, I know that Pavel recommends the oven mitt and Derek Toshner likes using duct tape to improve swing grip. Any other thoughts on the effectiveness of this training methods?
 
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