Kettlebell 1 vs 2hand swings in S&S
- Thread starter Kozushi
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jhpowers
Level 6 Valued Member
It's interesting, I've been doing 40kg swings just to build power for my 1HS at 32kg, but @pet' is right, the only place that 2HS are mentioned is for the shadow swings. Pavel says that %30 of bodyweight is ideal for power production. For me, that would be 23.1kg. I guess I should just drop the 40kg 2HS and do the occasional shadow swings with the 24, as prescribed. If all else fails then follow the program.
Hip power = Athleticism. For running, jumping, pushing, pulling, and carrying. More is better.
I look at 2H swings sort of like grip training, relative to S&S. Grip can be a limiter with swings; does this mean you need to find other ways to train your grip? No. You can just keep training your 1H swings, and your grip will improve. But occasionally it helps to come at it from another angle and work on the grip using some other accessory movements. You might get some new insight, or plug a leak or gap somewhere. 2H swings are similar, in my mind. Once you are swinging heavy and well with 1H, there's no specific need for 2H swings, especially on S&S. But if you feel stalled out in your progress or just really want to focus on power one day every now and then, it may help to come at it from another angle and do some heavier 2H swings. Same thing with the shadow swings. Different types of swings are instructive. Occasional variety; occasional spice for the main dish.
Kozushi
Level 7 Valued Member
More than that. A major goal of S&S is to eventually do 100 swings 2H in a row with the 48kg bell. This is outlined on a page near the end of the book.
You do the shadow swings practice for sure every 2 weeks, but also whenever you feel too tired to do the regular ones.
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Kozushi
Level 7 Valued Member
I agree. It is now over a year since I started S&S. I have noticed that when it comes to progressing past Simple even Pavel gives examples of breaking away from the strict S&S protocol - things like Waving the Load and such. While OF COURSE my goal is to 1H swing the 48 (well, currently the 40) for all 100 of the 10X10 swings of S&S, I really do not think I am leaving S&S by often substituting 2H swings for 1H in my S&S workouts with the 40kg bell. I have already totally aced Simple long ago and I have not lost any of that strength whatsoever. Also, it is a goal of S&S to 2H swing the kettlebell 100 times in a row without putting it down, eventually with the 48 he writes. The "shadow swings" start with 30% of your bodyweight, but then progress to the same 48kg bell you use for Sinister.
Riley O'Neill
Level 3 Valued Member
To me the downside to half steps is that kettlebells are expensive. From 32kg I bought a 40kg and I am hoping to use this for the rest of the year. Retail price it was $160. The next one I will buy next January will be 48kg. It will set me back over $200.
Getting a 36kg and 44kg will be an extra $370. That is the immediate downside I see.
I am finding I get to learn a bunch of new lessons as I get acclimated to the 40kg. Its not comfortable to do both the swings and get ups in the same day so I split them up on alternating days while I am still getting used to everything.
Getting a 36kg and 44kg will be an extra $370. That is the immediate downside I see.
I am finding I get to learn a bunch of new lessons as I get acclimated to the 40kg. Its not comfortable to do both the swings and get ups in the same day so I split them up on alternating days while I am still getting used to everything.
Kettlebelephant
Level 6 Valued Member
No, the shadow swings stay at ~30% of BW!
It's the non-stop swings that you try to get to 100reps.
Don't confuse one with the other.
In your specific case (reached Simple + current working weight 40Kg):
- Once every two weeks do the non-stop swings with the 36, 32, 28 or maybe even 24 ("...one or more sizes lighter than the one you are currently swinging,..."). -> Here the goal is to reach 100 consecutive reps, ultimatively with the 48.
- Shadow swings are only done on light days (when you are fatigued or stressed), but they stay at 30% of BW.
Kettlebelephant
Level 6 Valued Member
10x10 like your usual S&S session, focus on maximum power
Kozushi
Level 7 Valued Member
I am a bad reader I guess.
jpilrose
Level 4 Valued Member
Hey Kizushi,
The goal is 100 1 hand swings (50 each hand), in 5 minutes.
pet'
Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,
Even if you reach the 100 1h with the Beast, doing them once or twice a week, using 2h to work on eccentric overspeed is a pretty good idea. Indeed, it will work a lot on power and will develop other skill. Plus, it can also be a little less taxing than the 1H version. For instance, it can be worth considering as a variety day in the middle of the week (or middle of the cycle).
Kind regards,
Pet'
Even if you reach the 100 1h with the Beast, doing them once or twice a week, using 2h to work on eccentric overspeed is a pretty good idea. Indeed, it will work a lot on power and will develop other skill. Plus, it can also be a little less taxing than the 1H version. For instance, it can be worth considering as a variety day in the middle of the week (or middle of the cycle).
Kind regards,
Pet'
Kettlebelephant
Level 6 Valued Member
You can't read itI am a bad reader I guess.
Pavel only says to replace your usual swings with shadow swings on an unloading day, so just by that you can only assume that you do the usual 10x10 pattern with the shadow swings aswell.
It's further confirmed in the progression example chart of the Lady going from 24 to the 32 (Kindle Pos.: 1441, Chapter: The goals and how to reach them). There you can see that the shadow swings are done for 10sets.
Kozushi
Level 7 Valued Member
That's funny, so the shadow swings are 1 handed as well. Hahaha. Oh boy! There is a LOT of writing in the S&S book, and I think since the author is a genius he maybe forgets how dumb some of us readers are out there.
So, what I'm doing on weaker days is "wrestling the kettlebell" to replace the typical 1h swings.
What I probably ought to be doing to stay strictly to the S&S book is to keep to the 32 for the 1h swings, and then use the 40 for the TGUs. However, I've put my 32 kettlebells away, and I have just my 40 and 48 out now. There is most definitely a limit to how many 1h 40k swings I can do in one session. While I have in fact done the whole routine 1 handed with the 40 a few times in the past, I can't keep it up daily. I've found that either 40 or 60 1h swings with the 40 is my real daily max; I finish the sets by doing 2h swings. I guess that's a bastardization of S&S since you're supposed to mix the 40 and 32 together but stay to 1h swings. Anyhow, I'm still a tank because of S&S and "Bastardized S&S" that I do, so "who cares?" I guess??? Hahaha!
So, what I'm doing on weaker days is "wrestling the kettlebell" to replace the typical 1h swings.
What I probably ought to be doing to stay strictly to the S&S book is to keep to the 32 for the 1h swings, and then use the 40 for the TGUs. However, I've put my 32 kettlebells away, and I have just my 40 and 48 out now. There is most definitely a limit to how many 1h 40k swings I can do in one session. While I have in fact done the whole routine 1 handed with the 40 a few times in the past, I can't keep it up daily. I've found that either 40 or 60 1h swings with the 40 is my real daily max; I finish the sets by doing 2h swings. I guess that's a bastardization of S&S since you're supposed to mix the 40 and 32 together but stay to 1h swings. Anyhow, I'm still a tank because of S&S and "Bastardized S&S" that I do, so "who cares?" I guess??? Hahaha!
pet'
Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,
It may be difficult to maintain our peak performance on an everyday basis. For instance, you can do it twice or three times a week. However, the other sessions might be more "cruising speed" session. For example, do 3 sessions with the Bulldog (100 1H, etc...) But the other 2 or 3 sessions are done with 32 or 36 (for e.g.)
Another option is to keep the same weight everytime, but vary the volume. Less swings and les GU some days, and full session some others.
Kind regards,
Pet'
It may be difficult to maintain our peak performance on an everyday basis. For instance, you can do it twice or three times a week. However, the other sessions might be more "cruising speed" session. For example, do 3 sessions with the Bulldog (100 1H, etc...) But the other 2 or 3 sessions are done with 32 or 36 (for e.g.)
Another option is to keep the same weight everytime, but vary the volume. Less swings and les GU some days, and full session some others.
Kind regards,
Pet'
AttilaThePun
Level 3 Valued Member
That's funny, so the shadow swings are 1 handed as well. Hahaha. Oh boy! There is a LOT of writing in the S&S book, and I think since the author is a genius he maybe forgets how dumb some of us readers are out there.
So, what I'm doing on weaker days is "wrestling the kettlebell" to replace the typical 1h swings.
What I probably ought to be doing to stay strictly to the S&S book is to keep to the 32 for the 1h swings, and then use the 40 for the TGUs. However, I've put my 32 kettlebells away, and I have just my 40 and 48 out now. There is most definitely a limit to how many 1h 40k swings I can do in one session. While I have in fact done the whole routine 1 handed with the 40 a few times in the past, I can't keep it up daily. I've found that either 40 or 60 1h swings with the 40 is my real daily max; I finish the sets by doing 2h swings. I guess that's a bastardization of S&S since you're supposed to mix the 40 and 32 together but stay to 1h swings. Anyhow, I'm still a tank because of S&S and "Bastardized S&S" that I do, so "who cares?" I guess??? Hahaha!
It was my understanding that the shadow swings are done 2 handed with a weight closest to 30% of your body weight. The continuous swings done with a lighter weight, I'm not entirely sure if they are meant to be done 1h or 2h, but I was under the impression they are done 2 handed.
I think Pavel purposefully avoids being prescriptive at times, and the important thing is that the principles are understood so that there is some lee-way in the implementation.
Kozushi
Level 7 Valued Member
Yes, it took me a long time to understand and then to accept this about his methods. I noticed especially reading "Enter the Kettlebell" that he wants the reader to apply the principles for themselves - thus the huge variety possible while following the ROP programme in the book. For S&S he simplifies things as much as possible "but not simpler" as he puts it. At this point in my S&S career, using the 40kg "bulldog" weight, I'm appreciating that I have to personalize the programe for my own needs but of course based on the researched and well designed principles taught me by Pavel. As far as staying in great shape and strength goes, I don't feel I'm missing out on anything doing many or most of my swings two handed, given that the 40kg bell is quite a heavy thing! I feel as long as I do at least a few sets of the 10X10 single handedly, I'm getting enough "anti-twist" exercise for my needs, and I'm happy to cruise with the 2h swings for the rest as power-developing exercises. So, my swing routine combines the 1h anti-twist stuff with the "wrestling the kettlebell" concepts, and I'm pretty happy with the results. I'm a tank!
pet'
Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,
I feel the same for the GU. Because I am pretty light, doing onely 3 heavy GUs (for me heavy is 36) is frankly enough for my strength need, on an everyday basis.
I prefer doing a bit less, but getting a sustainable routine that does not exhaust me and allows me to manage every situations.
Kind regards,
Pet'
I feel the same for the GU. Because I am pretty light, doing onely 3 heavy GUs (for me heavy is 36) is frankly enough for my strength need, on an everyday basis.
I prefer doing a bit less, but getting a sustainable routine that does not exhaust me and allows me to manage every situations.
Kind regards,
Pet'
Deleted member 316
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I was under the impression that you start with five sets of ten two handed. Start doing a few single hand swings within the five sets. And once you are doing five sets of ten single handed, stay with single handed and start adding more sets until you reach ten sets.
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