jhorwitz
Level 1 Valued Member
Where did you get the plan from Tim Almond?
David Goggins of Strength Training
- Thread starter Wolv3rus
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LukeV
Level 7 Valued Member
You are correct, not every single day, but that’s more because they might be unwell, travelling or holidaying, for example, than they are having programmed ‘days off‘ for recovery. And many of them will be practising their sport, in one form or another, even when on holidays or between formal training phases. It’s just a different attitude many/some endurance athletes appear to have
guardian7
Level 6 Valued Member
Unless you are a competitive athlete or in military or emergency services, what you can do in a single workout is probably not that important. What you do consistently to meet your goals over your entire life is what counts.
The other factor is what is the best use of your time? As Anna said, make use of your fitness in the real world. As Pavel T. has said, there are diminishing returns to high level performance.
Unless you are paid for it, the cost probably outweighs the benefits at a certain point when you have to just be honest and call it a hobby you want to spend time on rather than do other things.
Exactly where that point occurs is debatable but I mean things like double bodyweight deadlift and other common decent strength standards.
Paotle
Level 4 Valued Member
Elite endurance athletes train way, way more than that.
It's not ununsual that long distance runner do 120+miles/week + some strength training. Even more for ultra endurance athletes (100+miles run in the mountains)
Some elite cyclists do something like 45 hours/week of training and on AVERAGE 25-30 hours /week.
So Goggins is nowhere extreme. If he is extreme, it's only in comparison to gym bros.
Wolv3rus
Level 3 Valued Member
My 6-Month Plan for Pressing the Beast | StrongFirst
I was told I would never press heavy because of “poor shoulder mechanics." Despite this, I gave myself six months to work up to pressing the beast.
www.strongfirst.com
Cobra
Level 4 Valued Member
When I see people like Goggins I always ask myself: "What is he training FOR?". At the end of the day, most of us aren't professional athletes, and although there is merit to pushing yourself near your limits every once in a while, it should not be the norm.
I have co-workers at the gym I work at who train all day, several times per day, in a way that for me almost seem like an escape of sorts. From what, I can only guess. It does not always strike me as healthy, though.
I train to live, I do not live to train. Nothing wrong with the latter per say, but training for me is about health first and foremost. When I listened to Goggins talking about how he ran a marathon until his feet were bleeding and severely damaged, I thought "Thanks, but no thanks".
I have co-workers at the gym I work at who train all day, several times per day, in a way that for me almost seem like an escape of sorts. From what, I can only guess. It does not always strike me as healthy, though.
I train to live, I do not live to train. Nothing wrong with the latter per say, but training for me is about health first and foremost. When I listened to Goggins talking about how he ran a marathon until his feet were bleeding and severely damaged, I thought "Thanks, but no thanks".
He started running these Ultras on 3 days notice, to raise money for the families of his fallen teammates. Second race was the Badwater 135. He took 5th overall. Uber Stud.
The Toughest Man Alive
David Goggins' military background reads like a case of bad “stolen valor” — the retired Navy SEAL chief is believed to be the only member of the armed forces to complete the Basic Underwater
allhands.navy.mil
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Grayland
Level 4 Valued Member
I wonder the same. I'm certain that when he was an active duty Seal, he didn't stretch 2 hours a day or even run 7 miles a day. He probably did the minimum effective dose of PE to keep him ready for whatever he was asked to do.
Kenny Croxdale
Level 7 Valued Member
Not A Good Idea
This approach to training is contraidicated for a varity of reasons.
It initially leads to
OverRearching
a mild form of OverTraining. In pervious post, I noted that OverReaching is an effective method for making progress
The break down of that is in Post 18, above.
Continuing to push deeper into OverReachings lead to...
OverTraining
OverTraining ensures the accumulation of greater fatigue, Injury, wear and tear, etc.
No
No
The foundaiton of a well written an executed prorgram is Perioidzation Training.
Information on this has been posted multiple time on this forum.
The foundation is based on...
The General Adaptation Synrome
How the Body Reacts to Stress
General adaptation syndrome (GAS) describes the physiological changes the body automatically goes through in response to stress.
Han Selye, MD, PhD around 1923 determined that diseases (stress) that body goes through a process that is listed below.
General adaptation syndrome (GAS) describes the physiologic changes your body goes through as it responds to stress. These changes occur in stages:
- An alarm reaction (also called fight-or-flight)
- A resistance phase (in which your body recovers)
- A period of exhaustion
1) When provided with enough recovery, the body may recoverl.
or
2) If not allowed to recover, you die.
Professional In The Field
The majority of Professions in The Field would state that training ensure a dimimished returned in gains; promotes greater fatigue, Injury, wear and tear, etc.
To reiterate, that is the reason for Periodization Training
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Wolv3rus
Level 3 Valued Member
In a way I'm already doing that.
I'm 25, I don't have kids or anything. I work in law enforcement but do study business on the side. I have an amazing girlfriend, great friends, hobbies etc. but I feel like there's still room for more.
Wolv3rus
Level 3 Valued Member
But the term recovery means something different from person to person, depending on but not limited to your overall resilience and output level.
Take a 5 mile jog for example:
For a Ultramarathon runner, this may very well be a recovery day while for an untrained individual, this may be a exhausting workout.
That's awesome! Sounds like you're on a great trajectory.
Have you thought about contacting Tim Almond to ask this question?
My other idea would be take a different approach to training... Have you ever thought about getting into weightlifting (Olympic Lifting)? It scales to any capacity...
bluejeff
Level 7 Valued Member
You don’t have to explain that to meNot A Good Idea
This approach to training is contraidicated for a varity of reasons.
It initially leads to
OverRearching
a mild form of OverTraining. In pervious post, I noted that OverReaching is an effective method for making progress
The break down of that is in Post 18, above.
Continuing to push deeper into OverReachings lead to...
OverTraining
OverTraining ensures the accumulation of greater fatigue, Injury, wear and tear, etc.
No
No
The foundaiton of a well written an executed prorgram is Perioidzation Training.
Information on this has been posted multiple time on this forum.
The foundation is based on...
The General Adaptation Synrome
How the Body Reacts to Stress
General adaptation syndrome (GAS) describes the physiological changes the body automatically goes through in response to stress.www.verywellhealth.com
Han Selye, MD, PhD around 1923 determined that diseases (stress) that body goes through a process that is listed belo
General adaptation syndrome (GAS) describes the physiologic changes your body goes through as it responds to stress. These changes occur in stages:
This means that one of two things will occur.
- An alarm reaction (also called fight-or-flight)
- A resistance phase (in which your body recovers)
- A period of exhaustion
1) When provided with enough recovery, the body may recoverl.
or
2) If not allowed to recover, you die.
Professional In The Field
The majority of Professions in The Field would state that training ensure a dimimished returned in gains; promotes greater fatigue, Injury, wear and tear, etc.
To reiterate, that is the reason for Periodization Training
I was making the point that folks like Goggins train despite being “beat up.” I never said it was a good idea.
To reiterate: Goggins’ stated purpose in training is to “harden his mind,” not be the best performer. Someone mentioned Jocko. I once saw a video of Jocko repeatedly trying to press a large kettlebell (maybe it was the beast, I don’t remember). Try and fail, try and fail. I don’t think it made it more than an inch or two from the rack position. I forget if he actually got it up. The comments were all of people praising his effort and hard work. I could only think, “what is the point of this?” knowing that his “point” was probably something like “facing a challenge.” Make of it what you will.
I’m not here to bash either Jocko OR Goggins. I like Goggins. But I wouldn’t follow his training style.
Kenny Croxdale
Level 7 Valued Member
No Explaination RequiredYou don’t have to explain that to me
I was making the point that folks like Goggins train despite being “beat up.” I never said it was a good idea.
I realize that y9u weren't advocating that training approach.
Debatable???
Considering it debatable make no sense
As you noted....
Periodization Training
This what occurs in he final week of a well written and executed Periodization Training Cycle.
Pushing the training session to failure or near to it into OverReaching is uncomfortable.
Part of the allows you to learn to gut it out. However, it is physically and mentally depleting.
Chronic OverTraining
Chronic training occurs from feeling beat up, tried and sore...despite fatigue, injury, wear and tear, etc. It fast tracks OverTraining. It ensures a decrease in gains. It is ego drive rather than based on solid principles.
Based on his philosophy, individual who have something like Covid should not allow it to interfer with their training.
A High School Football Coach's Training Method
One of the High Coaches that I deal with trainings is based on push them until they puke oare come close to it.
That type of training doesn't take a lot of brains. Nor does any type of OverTraining.
Back In The 1960s
High School Football Coaches limited water consumption during two a day practice. Doing so, was deamed to toughen them up physically and mentally.
Lack of Knowledge
Effort and hard work will only take an individual so far without knowledge.
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Wolv3rus
Level 3 Valued Member
Thanks! I haven't, no, but that's a great idea, I'll send him a mail right away!
Stand alone Olympic Lifting hasn't been that much of an interest for me since I tried it a couple of years ago but it really didn't work for me.
I do like some of the exercises but for one, I have horrible ankle mobility to a point where I couldn't even deadlift from the ground without rounding my lower back for a long time. This caused me having back pain from squatting and deadlifting, something kettlebells really seemed to improve and I fell in love with them. I'm currently doing some of Ben Patrick - the knees over toes guys - exercises to improve my mobility. My goal of right now is to be mobile enough to perform a pistol squat and eventually passing the beast tamer challenge, from there we'll see
justinr
Level 5 Valued Member
Just my $0.02…
I think everybody has the ability to turn on the crazy timer. That place in your head that you’ll do whatever it takes no matter the damage you do to yourself. Goggins calls it “mental durability). But I call it a timer because once engaged, it will end. People like Goggins and Jocko have a natural, lengthy timer. Most of us don’t (otherwise we’d all be SEALs or Raiders or Special Forces or Pararescue Jumpers )
And I think like most things - mental or physical - you can train to increase the crazy timer length. But everybody has a genetic limit. I think Goggins is trying to figure out what his genetic limit is.
I look at Goggins the same way I look at Tom Platz. Their parent’s DNA mixed in a way that mine didn’t. It’s fun to watch them and learn about them and maybe pick up a trick or 2. But I try not to pattern myself after them.
I think everybody has the ability to turn on the crazy timer. That place in your head that you’ll do whatever it takes no matter the damage you do to yourself. Goggins calls it “mental durability). But I call it a timer because once engaged, it will end. People like Goggins and Jocko have a natural, lengthy timer. Most of us don’t (otherwise we’d all be SEALs or Raiders or Special Forces or Pararescue Jumpers
)And I think like most things - mental or physical - you can train to increase the crazy timer length. But everybody has a genetic limit. I think Goggins is trying to figure out what his genetic limit is.
I look at Goggins the same way I look at Tom Platz. Their parent’s DNA mixed in a way that mine didn’t. It’s fun to watch them and learn about them and maybe pick up a trick or 2. But I try not to pattern myself after them.
Wolv3rus
Level 3 Valued Member
Great piece of thinking.
If you were to task yourself with increasing your threshold, how would you personally go about this?
justinr
Level 5 Valued Member
I’d have to have a reason. And right now “just because” wouldn’t cut it. In my 30s and even my 40s “just because” would cut it. But in my 50s? Nah
I’m a widower. No kids. CPA by trade. Really hard to come up with a reason to push myself like that. I’m happy bumping up my training max 5 pounds ever 3 to 4 weeks and calling it a day.But…
I’d start with finding a reason. Once I found that reason…well…I don’t know. Nothing I have in my head is anywhere near “ultramarathon with 3 days notice” level.
I guess Super Squats is something I always tested myself with. But to make it harder, I’d use a 5RM instead of a 12RM For the set of 20 squats. Or Dan John’s Mass Made Simple, but don’t use his weight classes (his levels top out at 225). I’d go 315 on the squat. And if I couldn’t do the set of 50 with only 2 or 3 rest pause, I’d call it a failure and have to try again. A heavy barbell on your back is uncomfortable. For widowmaker (20 reps), it sucks. For > 20, it is excruciating. So I think I’d go for 50 @ 315
guardian7
Level 6 Valued Member
I think there is a middle ground to doing random challenges and just sticking to strict training.
The SEAL selection process is not training. It is a mental test to see if individuals have the ability to push through hardship no matter what. The training comes after selection. Goggins has stated quite a few times that his approach is to overcome mental barriers and reach goals rather than systematic performance training.
However, there is a lot of value in overcoming obstacles and challenges in building confidence. Here is a possible middle ground.
Train consistently with proper principles year round, but maybe four times a year or whatever, push yourself to the edge without compromising form or safety as much as possible (not SEAL selection!). Tim Anderson of Original Strength talks about this in one book as have others. Challenges like crawling for an hour or loaded rucking.
There is a lot of value in seeing what we are capable of mentally. Often more than we think. There are a lot of problems with crossfit in terms of training methodology but pushing people past their comfort zone has also got some remarkable results. I have seen it. The 10 000 swing challenge from Dan John may be a good example. Trying the SFG snatch test a few times a year could be one for some people. Joining a spartan race, long rucks, etc. These should only be attempted with foundational training, of course.
We will never know when an emergency might come up where drawing on mental and physical reserves might be necessary.
The SEAL selection process is not training. It is a mental test to see if individuals have the ability to push through hardship no matter what. The training comes after selection. Goggins has stated quite a few times that his approach is to overcome mental barriers and reach goals rather than systematic performance training.
However, there is a lot of value in overcoming obstacles and challenges in building confidence. Here is a possible middle ground.
Train consistently with proper principles year round, but maybe four times a year or whatever, push yourself to the edge without compromising form or safety as much as possible (not SEAL selection!). Tim Anderson of Original Strength talks about this in one book as have others. Challenges like crawling for an hour or loaded rucking.
There is a lot of value in seeing what we are capable of mentally. Often more than we think. There are a lot of problems with crossfit in terms of training methodology but pushing people past their comfort zone has also got some remarkable results. I have seen it. The 10 000 swing challenge from Dan John may be a good example. Trying the SFG snatch test a few times a year could be one for some people. Joining a spartan race, long rucks, etc. These should only be attempted with foundational training, of course.
We will never know when an emergency might come up where drawing on mental and physical reserves might be necessary.
Kenny Croxdale
Level 7 Valued Member
Mentally Touch
Yes, the Seals program is to determine the individual are mentally tough enough to endure and not give up.
Some indivuals may be more physically fit. However, unable to grind it out.Goggins has stated quite a few times that his approach is to overcome mental barriers and reach goals rather than systematic performance training. ...you can train despite fatigue, injury, wear and tear, etc
Chroinic OverTraining
Training with this approach ensure chronic fatigue, ensure wear and tear, tirdness, etc.
Periodization Training Cycles
A well forumlated Periodization Training Cycle will include pushing youself to the limit or close to it at time, into OverReaching.
To Reiterate, following it with a New Training Cycle that something light and easly, allows the body to adapt and become stronger.
OverReaching develops some ability to learn to gut it out.
Good Point
Into Thin Air
This book examines how "Eight climbers die on Mount Everest during a storm on May 10, 1996. It was the worst loss of life ever on the mountain on a single day.:
One of the lesser conditioned memeber of the climb was Dr Beck Weathers. Weather survived due to his mental toughness and deteremination, while other fitter individual gave up and died.
DNA
Mental Toughness and dive is essential in some individual DNA.
Dr Jason Curtis
In 2012 at the Albuuquerque Strength Training Clinic (sanction the National Strength and Conditioning Association), Dr Jason Curtis' presentation, post on this forum, examimed "Winning The Challenge" Weight Loss Contest hosted by Define Gym, a local gym with multiple locations.
Curtis did a psychological profile of three goups.
Curtis determined the most successful individual were self driven; essentially it was in their DNA.
With that said, some individual can develop mental touchness over time.
Other will stop when the going get tough.
CrossFit
Overall, the metality of CrossFit of constantly pushing to failure is determental. It is more about determining who is the toughest rather than eliciting effective training results.
Generally, studies have shown that Crossfit people are more likely to get injured than in other sports. Overall, the injury rate is about 20%. https://sportdoctorlondon.com/crossfit-injuries/