slnm
Level 1 Valued Member
Stew is the other one but he hasn't posted for a while. If more folks signed up that's great. We can all have a party!
Kettlebell "Lazy Endurance" swing protocol - how it went
- Thread starter Anna C
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Sol, this probably exceeds your resting HR question, but made me curious about the average calculation on my daily readings. The HR value it gives me for the day does appear to be a straight average of the 2.5 minutes. This is a screen capture of this morning's 2.5 min reading, which the details say the Min HR was 43.82, Max HR 52.74, and Avg HR 47.6, which the app saves as a HR value of 48 today. The red line is my HR and you can see it going up and down with my breathing. Inhale, HR goes up. Exhale, HR goes down. The amount of difference between those is represented by the HRV. The purple line, HRV, takes 15 sec or so to stabilize (apparently I should let it settle in more... other days it starts off with a more steady indication) then stays fairly steady. HRV today was 58 which is about my baseline. Then it gives me a score; today was 8 which is good, though slightly parasympathetic dominant due to low HR and same or high HRV, compared to my baseline.
I'll add this here as additional "results"....
Did a standard S&S session this morning, 10 x 10 1H swings and 10 total get-ups, all w/ 32kg. Swings in 10:40, then 2:00 rest, then get-ups in 14:40.
This isn't the first time I've done this (maybe the 3rd or 4th), but this is the first time it felt like "business as usual." The swings were QUITE a bit easier than I recall from before this 6 week program. My HR still went high (avg 149, max 162 during swings) but I was fully recovered between sets for a good powerful next set. I could probably do it in less time if I pushed it... I would guess 7 or 8 minutes... probably still not at 5 min. As for the get-ups... the surprising thing there is that I could DO 5 each side w/ 32kg, when I've been doing VERY FEW get-ups the last 6 weeks. So, get-up strength was well-maintained by the protocol.
Bottom line: This 103 "Lazy Endurance" protocol definitely seems to have advanced my S&S practice.
Did a standard S&S session this morning, 10 x 10 1H swings and 10 total get-ups, all w/ 32kg. Swings in 10:40, then 2:00 rest, then get-ups in 14:40.
This isn't the first time I've done this (maybe the 3rd or 4th), but this is the first time it felt like "business as usual." The swings were QUITE a bit easier than I recall from before this 6 week program. My HR still went high (avg 149, max 162 during swings) but I was fully recovered between sets for a good powerful next set. I could probably do it in less time if I pushed it... I would guess 7 or 8 minutes... probably still not at 5 min. As for the get-ups... the surprising thing there is that I could DO 5 each side w/ 32kg, when I've been doing VERY FEW get-ups the last 6 weeks. So, get-up strength was well-maintained by the protocol.
Bottom line: This 103 "Lazy Endurance" protocol definitely seems to have advanced my S&S practice.
Al Ciampa
Level 7 Valued Member
Fantastic!
slnm
Level 1 Valued Member
@aciampa Sorry about that. I've edited the post. For some reason my brain sometimes gets the protocol name wrong. I get that this protocol is about *serious endurance*, especially as the sessions go longer! Speaking of this protocol, do you have any thoughts on whether someone should not do it twice in a row? I would love to do it a second time although I might change my mind when I actually finish it.
I would probably want to do it with the same 20kg bell, though, as I think 24kg might be too heavy yet. Just thinking out loud. A new protocol will be fine too.@Anna C Thanks for the follow on details. Your resting heart rate is quite low. My resting rate is probably somewhere in the mid to high 60's. Has it always been that low or has controlled exercise and maybe controlled breathing brought it down?
Other variables of interest to me (and I don't know if you monitor or care about these) are how quickly my HR drops to below 100 after a workout, how much my HR drops between rounds, and how many minutes/rounds it takes my HR to stabilize and not rise (and at what HR). I've got the data on the Polar Flow site to analyze.
I've not played with monitoring HRV, or with controlling my breath. So, even more things for me to look at. But, I don't want to change how I breathe in the middle of a protocol and skew the results. Oh, and I'm delighted to read your detailed report. You like data as much as I do!
Sol
Sol, yes, my HR has tended to be low since I started cycling (bike riding) almost 10 years ago. I think it used to be in the mid-60s prior to that, but I'm not really sure. It's been in the 50s for quite some time, and mostly low 50s. Focused aerobic training lowers it further, and I did see some more lowering with this program.
I've never really looked at how quickly my HR drops after a workout or exercise. @EdwinMillersfgII knows quite a bit about Heart Rate Recovery, and is also a data junkie like us!! I also have some other data you might find interesting relative to the protocol you're doing now -- I'll PM you.
I've never really looked at how quickly my HR drops after a workout or exercise. @EdwinMillersfgII knows quite a bit about Heart Rate Recovery, and is also a data junkie like us!! I also have some other data you might find interesting relative to the protocol you're doing now -- I'll PM you.
Another after-effect of Plan 103 to add. @Jess Burchill mentioned in his log that he pulled some deadlifts and felt an improvement, even mid-way through the protocol. So this made me curious to see what I could lift now.
Answer: A new Deadlift PR of 250 lb!
My barbell deadlift history:
-- Never touched a barbell until early 2014
-- Practiced and trained in 2014 to a max lift of 225 lb on 12/15/14
-- PRd 240 lb on 4/21/15 in the last few weeks of this SFG prep program How to Prepare for and Pass Your SFG Level I - StrongFirst
-- Very little barbell since then. I did one competition in July with a little training in the weeks prior and pulled 210 lb. And I lifted 205 lb x 3 for the SFL challenge on 9/11/15.
-- So the only time since 9/11 that I've touched barbell was 12/21/15, and it was only 70 lb for teaching purposes.
-- Today, 1/4/16: warm-up and some 32kg swings, then conventional barbell DL: 135 x 5, 185 x 1, 205 x 1, 225 x 1, 250 x 1. Tried 265, but no go. I actually think I could have lifted it, but was getting some warning pains in my right knee so I shut it down before liftoff. John Fox watched my 250 lb lift and he said it was good; the first part slow but the second part went up super easy and quick. Of course, this corresponds to the swing hinge-to-plank...
So, add me to the "Heavy Swings Increase Max Deadlift" crowd!!!
Answer: A new Deadlift PR of 250 lb!
My barbell deadlift history:
-- Never touched a barbell until early 2014
-- Practiced and trained in 2014 to a max lift of 225 lb on 12/15/14
-- PRd 240 lb on 4/21/15 in the last few weeks of this SFG prep program How to Prepare for and Pass Your SFG Level I - StrongFirst
-- Very little barbell since then. I did one competition in July with a little training in the weeks prior and pulled 210 lb. And I lifted 205 lb x 3 for the SFL challenge on 9/11/15.
-- So the only time since 9/11 that I've touched barbell was 12/21/15, and it was only 70 lb for teaching purposes.
-- Today, 1/4/16: warm-up and some 32kg swings, then conventional barbell DL: 135 x 5, 185 x 1, 205 x 1, 225 x 1, 250 x 1. Tried 265, but no go. I actually think I could have lifted it, but was getting some warning pains in my right knee so I shut it down before liftoff. John Fox watched my 250 lb lift and he said it was good; the first part slow but the second part went up super easy and quick. Of course, this corresponds to the swing hinge-to-plank...
So, add me to the "Heavy Swings Increase Max Deadlift" crowd!!!
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Jess Burchill
Level 4 Valued Member
That's awesome, Anna! Nice work!
@taedoju Here you go Call for Research Subjects for the Latest A+A Swing Protocols The one I just completed is Plan 103.
Most people will tell you the one-arm kettlebell _snatch_ has a big carryover to the deadlift, so it's at least not surprising to me that such a high volume of heavy swings would have the same, if not the same amount, of effect. The weight being swung is going to be an important variable. The weight @Anna C was swinging was _heavy_ by anyone's and everyone's standard for her size and gender.
We also have Pavel giving examples - in PTTP Pro, if memory serves - of programs featuring high volume, explosive, low weight _deadlifts_ that caused increases in DL 1RM; my memory is a bit vague but it was something like sets of 20 reps @ 225 lbs. for a 600 lb. deadlifter.
We also know that some competitive powerlifters who follow a Westside template in general terms have used heavy swings in place of speed deadlifts.
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Al Ciampa
Level 7 Valued Member
I have no doubt that 2-h swings help one's DL. The snatch? Without training the DL? I may have only heard this once, and still I think I remember they were pulling once a month, or so.
We have 2 reports now of 6 weeks of heavy 1-h swings improving DL PRs without pulling.
Something tells me that it is also something to do with what needed to be improved on an individual in the first place (grip, e.g.), and not in the swing itself (unless it improved this quality).
We have 2 reports now of 6 weeks of heavy 1-h swings improving DL PRs without pulling.
Something tells me that it is also something to do with what needed to be improved on an individual in the first place (grip, e.g.), and not in the swing itself (unless it improved this quality).
Grip could very well be relevant. Because with my big lift Monday, and also with 5 x 5 @175 yesterday, it was just THERE. Didn't have to use a mixed grip, or focus on it particularly. Just didn't feel any limiitations with it. As Travis Jewett says here, Lifting Stones: The Value to the Modern Trainee - StrongFirst "your brain knows better than to allow you to lift things your hands cannot grip." In past lifting efforts I didn't feel that it was THE limiter, but it was probably a factor.
In addition to that, my back felt much stronger, my lats are engaged better, and my arms are strong enough to hold the bar for the duration of the pull. But it's the hinge that does the actual work, and the hinge now has better muscle fiber recruitment, so I do feel like for me that is the biggest factor.
In addition to that, my back felt much stronger, my lats are engaged better, and my arms are strong enough to hold the bar for the duration of the pull. But it's the hinge that does the actual work, and the hinge now has better muscle fiber recruitment, so I do feel like for me that is the biggest factor.
@aciampa, I can switch from a DL program to a snatch program and lose very little, if anything, when I come back to my DL, and likely my DL will improve after the first cycle back compared to where it was pre snatch cycle. I think one of the blogs on TSC training mentions focusing on the snatch and not doing much DL or PU but all three lifts go well in competition. Anyone have a link to that?
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amdemarais
Level 5 Valued Member
Lew
Level 3 Valued Member
@Anna C ; I've just read through this entire thread again and I must say: I am very impressed.
Your performance as well as presentation of your results are noteworthy and laudible.
There are many kettlebell princes and arguably a king or two..but you have my vote for Kettlebell Queen.
Thank you for sharing with, and being a part of, this community.
Your performance as well as presentation of your results are noteworthy and laudible.
There are many kettlebell princes and arguably a king or two..but you have my vote for Kettlebell Queen.
Thank you for sharing with, and being a part of, this community.
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