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Kettlebell Press Progression after Simple Goal

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03swing21

Level 1 Valued Member
Hey folks,

A very quick background as I do not post often, followed by a question. Thanks in advance for everyone's assistance.

28 years old, just under 6 feet and 204 pounds at the moment. Achieved the Simple goal last summer and owned it pretty well over the following few weeks before a work commitment kept me from training on my own from November of last year to a month ago. Once I was able to train again I jumped right back into S&S and re-achieved the Simple goal for the Getup last week. I have repeated the Simple goal several times in the last week and feel very good about it. The swings are lagging a bit behind, taking 8:28 this morning. They were strong and powerful swings, so I was happy with the performance. I figure the rest times will decrease over the next several weeks, I am just not rushing so as not to compromise power.

The issue is that the heaviest kettlebell at the gym I go to is 32kg, so I am limited in increasing my Getup currently. I also found the thread entitled "When Changing a Program is, and isn't, Ok" where Steve Freides mentions regarding S&S to "try the military press and, at the end of each set, with the weight still at the top, perform a windmill or bent press."

So I am soliciting the forum for a press program to use after my S&S swings while I work around my equipment limitations of heavier kettlebells. I have read ETK as well as Dan John's One Arm Press article, but would appreciate some ideas regarding how to work the press into my Swing goals, as I am essentially using the press as a substitute for Getup for the time being. FWIW, I cannot press a 32kg (would love to work up to that) and can press the 24 for about 8 reps.

Thanks again. Also if interested, the thread referenced above:

When Changing a Program Is, and Isn't, OK
 
At that point if your press technique with the 24kg is good I would just switch over to the ROP. That will get you to a 32kg press. You can still swing the 32kg but use the 24kg for your press and snatch.
 
@03swing21, one thing I keep wanting someone to try is the Rite of Simple & Sinister - do your swings as prescribed by S&S, then on 3 days/week, do the presses as prescribed by ETK's Rite of Passage. Take as much of a break as you want, need, and can in between the swings and presses.

A second option for the Rite of Simple & Sinister would be to separate the press and swing sessions by 6 hours or more, in which case you could do the presses first.

I think both of these are approaches worth trying but I am not aware of anyone who has done either, including me.

-S-
 
Thanks all for your time and replies.

@Steve Freides I'd love to be the guinea pig and give that a shot. Due to time constraints, I'd have to take option 1, i.e. swings then presses right afterwards. Also FWIW, I have job required endurance activities (run/swim/ruck) that I have been sprinkling in at low intensities throughout the week with good success. Low intensity being the key, but I'll have to keep that up. Thanks again for the expertise. Very excited to give this a go.
 
I'm also interested in this. I've ordered the 40kg kettlebell though, and I do expect to get it, so I'm going to go onto the 48kg eventually. There is a press in the Turkish Getup when you start the movement.

What mystifies me is the NW single arm pushup thing. That's no joke!!!
 
@03swing21, your job requirements mean you have to be careful to approach your training as Easy Strength. It sounds like you've figured that out already; I'm just emphasising that point.

Variety day on the ROP is just that - do what you like, do nothing if you're feeling in need of a rest. I'm not sure the getup makes the best fit in a pressing program for Variety day, but I haven't tried it and can't say.

-S-
 
TGU could be done lighter (waving the load) as "warm up" before presses, i used to do TGU before moving target complex that way -
also i have done and it worked great :
day 1
moving target complex + tgu
day 2
swings 10 OTM (20 in minute )

day 3
moving target complex + snatch practice

day 4
rest
day 5
moving target complex
day 6 - VO2max snatch / when tired S&S traditional format
 
You can do what you want on your variety days but swinging a 32kg and pressing a 24kg when those ladders climb is gonna make you tired. I would do very little other than active recovery on off days. Just from my experience.
 
@Steve Freides absolutely. I'm thinking tread lightly for the first few weeks and see how I feel. If the ladders are not climbing as they should with the easy endurance work, I will readjust. Probably come back here for some more advice!

Thanks all for your time.
 
@Steve Freides curiously, when on the ROS&S (probably we should call it roses? would you still recommend snatching on light day? If yes, how would you recommend one approaches it?
 
@Mark Limbaga, I don't know. They (snatches) are recommended to be done "easy" and on the easy press day, so that should be OK. I think the answer here is "it depends on your goal" - if your goal is to use this ROP/S&S variation to still hit the ROP goals of 200 snatches in 10:00, then I think you need the snatches. If, OTOH, your focus is on maximum crispness and eventually weight in your swings, and on hitting your 2x/bw press, then I think the snatch could be left out. The "it depends" is on whether or not you're going to chase both the press and the snatch goals at the same time.

The ROP is probably best left untouched is you want to reach the ROP's goals. I think the question on the table about the ROS&S approach is what it will do for you in comparison to what the ROP would do and what S&S would do. The answer, in my best guesstimation, is that when compared to the ROP, it will give you a better swing - and, importantly, the benefits outlined in S&S of the better swing and its training - and a worse press, and the question is then, "how much will the press suffer by being done second?" and that's the $64,000 question for me. And it should give you just as good a swing as S&S because you're doing the same movement in the same way, although the question then becomes whether the getup functions as an assistance exercise to the swing, and if so, does the MP do that job the same, or better, or worse.

As you see, I have more questions than answers. I'd stick to swings only and not snatches, based on what I understand so far. And let's remember that the goal is swings 5-7 days/week, and presses 3x/week.

-S-
 
This idea has occurred the me before, although I haven't actually tried it. A few thoughts (a lot which ovelap with @Steve Freides):

For an ROS&S hybrid, I would press first and then swing. To me, ROP is a pressing program first and foremost. IMO, the barely structured swing/snatch training in ROP is not nearly opitimal to prepare for the SSST, but it's a reasonable compromise given the rigorousness of the pressing program and the concurrent goal of working up to a 1/2 BW press. I would not look at ROS&S as a press/SSST program, but as a press/GPP (A&A) program.

Therefore, I would keep the press ladders the main event on press days and do them first. The S&S swing format is supposed to represent a comfortably sustainable level of effort, especially when done within A&A guidelines, so I don't think the swings would be compromised too much by pressing first. Plus, you are only pressing three days a week, so you will be doing swings first on other training days anyway.

If SSST is a goal, S&S swings will be a good base for more specific snatch training, but I would save the specific snatch focus for it's own training phase.
 
Steve Freides said:
As you see, I have more questions than answers. I'd stick to swings only and not snatches, based on what I understand so far. And let's remember that the goal is swings 5-7 days/week, and presses 3x/week.
Click to expand...

Steve, do you think some people would burn out doing this? I am doing ROP press ladders, then swinging 36kg afterwards. I roll the dice and go for time, but still I do sets of 10 swings and rest. Depending on the day, I compress my rests slightly to make it a little more intense, or lengthen them to make it more moderate. Some days I don't reach 100 swings, some days I could do more than 100. On easy day I still snatch. So I am swinging twice a week really. The thought of swinging 5-7 times per week while going through these press ladders is somewhat daunting to consider.
 
@Steve W., yes, the ROP is a press program, but if you don't do the swings first, then you're favoring the press over the swing, and S&S is a swing program. I'm not sure that doing swings after presses constitutes any significant change to the ROP - what's I'm proposing is different, and indeed the presses will suffer some, but how much is the question.

@rickyw, I don't know - no one I know of has tried it before. Because in S&S we really want to own a weight before increasing, we want to emphasize that aspect when trying to do presses also. It might be that the right mix is do to fewer than 100 swings on press days and 100 the other days, or do to fewer than 100 on the non-press days to better facilitate recovery. I just don't know which, and I don't know if either would work. My inclination is to maximize rest day so, if swing volume needs to be cut down in order not to overtrain, then to do fewer swings on non-press days.

-S-
 
Steve Freides said:
@Steve W., yes, the ROP is a press program, but if you don't do the swings first, then you're favoring the press over the swing, and S&S is a swing program. I'm not sure that doing swings after presses constitutes any significant change to the ROP - what's I'm proposing is different, and indeed the presses will suffer some, but how much is the question.

-S-
Click to expand...

Yes, I am saying that if I were to do a hybrid ROS&S program, I WOULD favor the press over the swing ON PRESS DAYS. The swing would still be center stage the other 2-4 days. The significant changes from ROP would be:

ROP:
Swing 2 days/week; snatch 1 day/week.
Heavy, medium, light effort days.
No specified set/rep scheme or specified mix of one and two hand swings.
Sets defined by time, determined by dice roll.
One balls to the wall all out glycolitic effort/week.

ROS&S:
Swing 5-7 days/week.
All efforts moderate, following A&A guidelines (with occasional test/continuous days).
10 x 10 one hand swings, alternating arms.

I realize this is just summarizing the program guidelines, but I think it highlights some significant differences:

Daily/near daily A&A training, which is a very different focus than ROP swings, and I think the most significant difference from by the book ROP.
A more specifically organized approach to ballistics.
No heavy day swing session (which can be mentally and physically difficult after heavy day presses).
Non press days with a focus on swings.
 
@03swing21, thank you for mentioning the Steve's Fred. I just read it and it seems that this ROS&S program is exactly what I've been looking for.

@Steve Freides, is my understanding correct that you work 6 days a week, however, 3 days you do only Swings (10x2x5 = 100 Swings) and 3 days you do presses only ? So the workout takes about 10 minutes a day ?

Can this be considered as a fundational program that can be done on a long term basis such as S&S ?

I am asking because few days ago I issued the thread where I was asking if Swings + Bottom Up press (or a regular press) can be considered a solid long term program.

Are the windmills at the top of the pressing movements neccessary ? What are the additional benefits ?

Sorry, I know it's a lot of questions but I would be very happy to receive the answers :)

Have a nice day guys !
 
@Andrej SK, I'm making this up as I go along; I don't have answers to your questions. I was thinking of swings 5-7 days a week.

-S-
 
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