S&S Supplemental Training

[Cortison]

But as far as usable strength & reliable conditioning. Doubt I’d win any strength competitions, but I could help you move house manhandling furniture that takes 2 people, on my own. Couldn’t run a marathon, but I’d walk one then do a days hard labour afterwards with minimal sleep.

And this is, where S&S together with maybe a little LISS shines. Basically, this is also what S&S claims to do. It's a GPP program after all, designed to get you in a above average (general population, not this forum ) shape and do that with minimal fuss.

@dc: impressive results, you certainly got a few things right.

 

[John K]

Comments like this constantly leave me in a quandary as to what should be my priority. Both I want to look muscular and I think that if I focus on these things I won't have time for others, which for my already 50 years maybe are more important. I don't share the idea that things can go together. Either you want to look like a bodybuilder and for that you have to put in the necessary effort or you can accept and be satisfied that you just look athletic but have many other qualities.
Maybe I mentioned it another time in one of the topics in the forum, but in my country (I guess there are similar ones in many other countries) we have some TV formats in which you have to chop wood, cut with a saw, throw, carry, run, arrange objects and a lot others. I've been watching these formats for over 10 years now and the most muscular people are eliminated first. Some manage to get ahead, but never close to the finish line. Which is disgraceful. In the last such TV show, the top three finalists had nothing to do with people who did strength training. One was a former swimmer, the other a dancer, and the third played poker and was 40 years old. I mean, strength training wasn't their main thing, although they played sports and maybe went to the gym to tone up. A former Olympic gymnast who was 51 years old also reached the final. There were, of course, many athletic boys who went quite far, but in the end did not win and were eliminated. But the most muscular ones exposed themselves the most. And this happens in almost every TV show as I said before. Which should make us draw our own conclusions.

I think if you want to look and move like an athlete, you should probably train like one. This will involve various distance explosive work (various distance sprints, jumps, throws), strength work (lifting in that 3-5 rep range), supportive work (lifting in that 6-30 rep range), some moderate duration aerobic work, and then play games. Combine that with low body fat levels and you will look, feel, and move more athletically.

 

[Dydo]

Yes John K, what you say is absolutely true. But I didn't even mean to look like an athlete and move like one. My point was that training for big muscles or not so big when that's your main goal maybe robs you of time that could be used to train for example with KB for 3-4 exercises and get a lot more benefits for your health, mobility, endurance and mobility. As well as performance in real and everyday life. And I think about these things more and more. Even if it is not KB, but some other form of load to achieve these goals.
By the way, many of the participants were just like that - they run, exercise, lift weights, are not overweight, look very athletic, but they were eliminated anyway. And they were eliminated in competitions that included these things by much weaker opponents, if you count their calling card and their appearance. In general, those with the greatest overall endurance won, although they had to repeatedly demonstrate strength endurance. Climbing ladders with heavy chains around your neck, pushing barrels up an incline, and doing this many times in one game.

 

[John K]

My point was that training for big muscles or not so big when that's your main goal maybe robs you of time that could be used to train for example with KB for 3-4 exercises and get a lot more benefits for your health, mobility, endurance and mobility.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding something. If big muscles is the goal, the most efficient way to train for that is bodybuilding. If you have a different priority, then it might not be the most efficient.

By the way, many of the participants were just like that - they run, exercise, lift weights, are not overweight, look very athletic, but they were eliminated anyway. And they were eliminated in competitions that included these things by much weaker opponents, if you count their calling card and their appearance. In general, those with the greatest overall endurance won, although they had to repeatedly demonstrate strength endurance. Climbing ladders with heavy chains around your neck, pushing barrels up an incline, and doing this many times in one game.

I am not familiar with this competition. How has it informed you of how to train? We have something similar in North America called Lumberjack Sports, and in general those competitors train specifically for it... What you describe sounds similar to what CrossFit's goal is - to be ready for any task by training a wide range of "stuff."

 

[Dydo]

These are TV shows with prize money for the winner. For the particular show, they are hardly informed in advance exactly what competitions there will be, but considering all the shows over the years, anyone who comes to the casting is aware that they need to have strength endurance, speed and many other qualities, including brains, in order to beat. This has been the case in previous shows of this game, and perhaps some prepare in advance before appearing for casting, but hardly have much time to do so. And they don't know if they will be approved to participate in the show. This show lasted for several months and the winner had about 25 victories in direct fights with other opponents, which is an indication that the victories were not accidental.
By the way, there were a lot of guys with bodies like crossfitters who obviously train hard, but they were eliminated. One of the finalists who came in third place was about 40 years old /now I saw in the reference, he was 38 during the show/ and at the end he said that he proved to himself and the viewers that you don't need to be an athlete, going to the gym or giving a lot of importance to sports, but when you have the will and don't give up, you can go far in such competitions and beat competitors in exactly what they think they are strong in.
Otherwise, I agree that it all depends on what your goal is. But most people are mistaken that if they go to the gym and lift heavy barbells, dumbbells and do exercises on machines and build muscle, it will give them an advantage over weaker opponents especially in competitions where strength is required - lifting, carrying, pushing, running, swimming, throwing. Only they don't take into account one basic fact - you have to be able to do it for a long time.
I've had my suspicions that if a person who only does resistance training, but doesn't train their endurance, is very likely to become even weaker in that respect over time than someone who doesn't exercise at all. There have been many instances in my life where various muscular guys have been asked to help move heavier furniture and the like, where they have tired much faster than much thinner and older people who don't do any sports.
But let me not dilute the topic further, so as not to offend its author

 

[cohilla]

There is lots of great information to digest here. Thanks everyone!

I had already learned these movements and trained with kettlebells starting 15+ years ago, and am just now starting to train again after a long hiatus due to school, career, kids, etc., and getting caught up with the KB community and Pavel's journey. This made the ramp up when starting S&S very fast, and through the first couple weeks it feels like it is a bit too minimal and would be leaving so much in the tank if doing nothing else. Having a background in high level athletics and strength training, it would take an inordinate amount of restraint to only stick to S&S and likely resulting in me wanting to move too fast through the program by pushing heavier weights too soon. On the plus side, it makes it impossible to make any excuse for skipping an S&S workout. I can always find time to get it in if that's the only thing I do, and it's much easier to make myself do it.

There is no one size approach given how everyone's goals and bodies are different. I plan to supplement S&S with sports specific things and some resistance, and modify as I go depending on how I feel and perform.

I appreciate all the insight!

 

[Halfakneecap]

I don’t care about muscles I care about energy and strength. I clearly remember the energy I had doing S&S, just felt awesome. I got the swings fairly quickly but I only got 32kg getup a long time after S&S, probably because I did 18 months of Strong C&P and got stronger. Strong gave me work capacity too, but as far as energy levels, the swings of S&S made me feel full of beans.

As others have said though, combining it with something else could be awesome as well. I’m thinking of 2-3 S&S a week with 2 x C&P&FSQ a week in the future

 

[renegadenate]

As others have said though, combining it with something else could be awesome as well. I’m thinking of 2-3 S&S a week with 2 x C&P&FSQ a week in the fufuture

That's the way to do it.

 

[dc]

You mentioned that you did about 45 mins mobility work prior to your S&S practice. What kind of stuff were you doing?

Original Strength stuff, mainly a longer version of the daily resets. Super Joints from Pavel. Then added Geoff Nuepert’s P3 Protocol when discovered it later.

 

[BillSteamshovel]

I’m thinking of 2-3 S&S a week with 2 x C&P&FSQ a week in the future

Personally am sticking with S&S for a while but am interested in what you have written above - are there existing programs that you will use to do the accompanying C&P&FSQ or are you going to create one or get some help from a coach ? For example would you consider Dry Fighting Weight on the C&P&FSQ days ?

What books websites threads etc should I read to better understand the difference between 2months program A then 2 months program B vs 4 months mixing programs A&B in the same week ?

 

[JR47]

Original Strength stuff, mainly a longer version of the daily resets. Super Joints from Pavel. Then added Geoff Nuepert’s P3 Protocol when discovered it

Thankyou for the clarification

 

[Halfakneecap]

Personally am sticking with S&S for a while but am interested in what you have written above - are there existing programs that you will use to do the accompanying C&P&FSQ or are you going to create one or get some help from a coach ? For example would you consider Dry Fighting Weight on the C&P&FSQ days ?

What books websites threads etc should I read to better understand the difference between 2months program A then 2 months program B vs 4 months mixing programs A&B in the same week ?

I’d just do 2 x a week S&S, maybe a 3rd day on the weekend if I feel ok and 2x a week C&P&FSQ, one day ladders ( 30 mins ) and one day sets of 3 ( 30 mins ) with heavy bells. Dry fighting weight style could work too

I recommend looking at Geoff Neuperts stuff, there are one month programs, right through to Strong, which is C&P and goes for months.

I like to do both, one month programs then once a year do a long slog. It’s tough but it works.