S&S Supplemental Training

[cohilla]

Hello all,

I'm looking for a definitive answer on supplementing the S&S program. I've read that it should not be done with anything else, but it can also be done in conjunction with sports specific training, etc. This seem contradictory... I would like to target other muscle groups (wrists, chest, quads, rear delts) while working through this program for sport specific strength, but want to make sure I'm not invalidating or working against any progress with it.

Any clarification would be appreciated.

 

[Steve Freides]

S&S isn't about muscle groups. We recommend you focus on S&S and when you've achieved Simple, then consider cutting back on S&S and adding other things.

-S-

 

[AJL]

I think one of the best lines in S&S comes near the end, when Pavel writes that after you reach Simple, if you want, you can just dial back to twice per week and still be stronger and in better shape than almost anyone. Really makes you think about why we work out in the first place, and what we actually want out of this.

Yet again I’m wondering it I shouldn’t just throw out all my other books and plans and just turn into an S&S monk lol

 

[3letterslong]

I had good success adding one or two sets of a different exercise each day as part of my warm-up. Monday would be weighted push-ups, Tuesday weighted rows, Wednesday weighted lunges, Thursday was sandbag shouldering and Friday was extra TGU practice. I did all this work Simple Strength style: heavy-ish, but easy.

 

[Brickwork]

S&S isn't about muscle groups. We recommend you focus on S&S and when you've achieved Simple, then consider cutting back on S&S and adding other things.

-S-

+1 for adhering to this advice (if your circumstances permit).

It is just my opinion, but for me 2023 was a year-long journey, during which I almost exclusively trained S&S (4-5 days per week), culminating with me achieving Simple.

When the monotony got to me, I mixed it up changing from having a weekly focus (e.g. power output or form through a specific movement pattern) and programming 6-12 blocks increasing the intensity (it was motivating and increased my compliance knowing progress was built in).

The journey is well worth it IMO (again, if your circumstances allow).

 

[Jtminster]

I would agree, focus on S&S, it will deliver. Unfortunately there isnt a definitive answer for supplemental work. It’s going to depend on your ability to recover.
I’ve added sparingly and have had to make adjustments constantly. On two hand swing days I squat more, usually one bell higher than Im swinging. So this week I did 40K GS for 5x5. Every Friday I do press ladders after S&S.
Keep in mind I’m constantly making adjustments. Some weeks I dont squat or press given what life is throwing my way. Hope this helps, you will need to find what works for you.

 

[renegadenate]

I've read that it should not be done with anything else

Only if you want to be disappointed with minimal gains.

Anyone who only performs S&S will be leaving a lot of strength, muscle, and conditioning on the table.

Disagree?

Then where all all the people on here that say they only perform S&S showcasing their magnificent physiques, strength, and conditioning prowess?

If anything, they're barely a step up from someone who does nothing.

but it can also be done in conjunction with sports specific training, etc.

This is how S&S should be used. IN ADDITION to other training.

I recommend three total-body sessions/week and 2-5 days of S&S depending on your time and schedule.

 

[silveraw]

S&S pairs really well with LISS work.

 

[kodo kb]

What sport do you play?

 

[dc]

Then where all all the people on here that say they only perform S&S showcasing their magnificent physiques, strength, and conditioning prowess?

I’m not claiming magnificent physique, strength & conditioning. But I’m closer to 50 than 40 in this photo. Haven’t entered any strength contests or tested my numbers in any specific exercises. But at the time I carried a full sized family fridge up a flight of stairs when my neighbor & his friend couldn’t manage it together. I’m not really educated enough to give an intelligent example of what I consider conditioning prowess. But I know I could rise at 2:30am & work for 12 hours straight, then come home do 45mins of mobility work & then the full S&S routine, then whatever gardening yard work my lovely partner decided needed doing, & then do whatever activities my son decided until the sun started to set.
At the time nothing but S&S, close to a full 12 months. 6-7 days a week. It’s all I had time for. It was the strongest most capable I’d felt in probably 10 years. Achieved simple then just stayed there until I owned it to the point of doing it daily as a warmup for something else.

 

[renegadenate]

At the time nothing but S&S, close to a full 12 months. 6-7 days a week. It’s all I had time for. It was the strongest most capable I’d felt in probably 10 years. Achieved simple then just stayed there until I owned it to the point of doing it daily as a warmup for something else.

Nice! Looking good and rugged.

But what did you do in all the YEARS (decades) prior to those 12 months to build your physique?

Someone who built their physique with years of barbell, dumbbell, and other training could easily take a "break" and maintain most of their strength and physique with S&S for some time.

I want to see all the people that claim they have only used S&S since beginning their training.

It's just like the bodybuilders who ate meat for decades to build their physique and then switch to being Vegan and tell everyone you don't need meat to get to their results.

 

[Suxatkettlebell]

Only if you want to be disappointed with minimal gains.

Anyone who only performs S&S will be leaving a lot of strength, muscle, and conditioning on the table.

Disagree?

Then where all all the people on here that say they only perform S&S showcasing their magnificent physiques, strength, and conditioning prowess?

If anything, they're barely a step up from someone who does nothing.



This is how S&S should be used. IN ADDITION to other training.

I recommend three total-body sessions/week and 2-5 days of S&S depending on your time and schedule.

Agree mostly with this. If you have been couch surfing and started S&S, I think your S&C jumps by leaps and bounds if you stick to the program. But for others coming from an athletic background, the results are mixed. If you work your way up to Sinister, I think that might be a different conversation.

I also think S&S is good as a reset. When you need to start from scratch for whatever reason, coming back from an injury, burned out but don't want to get back on the couch, etc, S&S shines.

I also think there is a HUGE mental benefit that often goes overlooked. The utter simplicity of it, the monotony or whatever, breaks your training down to ground level. Instead of thinking about sets, reps, rest periods, etc, you have one job and it teaches you to focus and to radically commit to something. The world is a challenging place with so many things vying for attention/distraction. It's meditative but will get you in far better shape than chasing nirvana.

Set a goal and do what you want. If what you're doing isn't getting you to your goal, change. You're not going to win a bodybuilding competition with S&S. You're not getting huge deadlifts or winning the CrossFit games with it. If you want enough of a workout that isn't going to take a lot of time and makes you functional for nearly everything, S&S is pretty good.

 

[renegadenate]

Agree mostly with this. If you have been couch surfing and start S&S, I think your S&C jumps by leaps and bounds if you stick to the program.

Sure, coming from the couch to S&S will provide benefits. But you would still get better results from many other programs especially three total-body sessions/week.

But for others coming from an athletic background, the results are mixed. If you work your way up to Sinister, I think that might be a different conversation.

Those that already compete in sports or perform other lifting benefit the most from S&S.

I also think S&S is good as a reset. When you need to start from scratch for whatever reason, coming back from an injury, burned out but don't want to get back on the couch, etc, S&S shines.

It can be good for that. But I would still go with 3 total-body sessions/week over S&S.

I also think there is a HUGE mental benefit that often goes overlooked. The utter simplicity of it, the monotony or whatever, breaks your training down to ground level. Instead of thinking about sets, reps, rest periods, etc, you have one job and it teaches you to focus and to racially commit to something. The world is a challenging place with so many things vying for attention/distraction. It's meditative but will get you in far better shape than chasing nirvana.

For some, this is the best benefit.

Set a goal and do what you want. If you what you're doing isn't getting you to your goal, change. You're not going to win a bodybuilding competition with S&S. You're not getting huge deadlifts or winning the Crossfit games with it. If you want enough a workout that isn't going to take a lot of time and makes you basically and fictional for nearly everything, S&S is pretty good.

I would say it's only good when combined with other training.

 

[Ege]

Why don’t you read the book and start S&S and see your self?

It is a great program, and a great book that will teach you manythings.

Best;

Ege

 

[Halfakneecap]

I’ve recently “rediscovered” swings after hardly doing them since S&S. I really enjoy the after effects ( lots of energy ) and I’ve always liked getups.

Have been doing C&P, DBLKBFSQ, and started snatching since then and while they are awesome, I think it would be good to redo S&S as a mainstay, and work up to as heavy as I could. Seeing @pavelmacek and others doing ridiculously heavy swings and getups relative to body weight is pretty cool to me.

Sure, obviously kb’s will never get me as strong as barbells but I don’t enjoy barbell work anywhere as much as I like kb work. And I don’t need that much strength. Conditioning is much more practical for me day to day.

 

[dc]

But what did you do in all the YEARS (decades) prior to those 12 months to build your physique?

You got me there, I didn’t take that into account.
Heavy compound barbell exercises teenage years & early 20’s. Then a longtime doing mobility & body weight work trying to regain my strength, confidence in my body back after devastating back injury. Eventually discovered kettlebells, bought a book, joined a forum & tentatively eased back into moving weight via S&S.
I dug up old photos of myself from barbell days. I look bigger in the above photo of my S&S only body. But I think that’s got more to do with the old man muscle thickening that happens when you hit a certain age.
So………
Yeah you’re right. S&S pretty much woke up hibernating meat built decades earlier.
But as far as usable strength & reliable conditioning. Doubt I’d win any strength competitions, but I could help you move house manhandling furniture that takes 2 people, on my own. Couldn’t run a marathon, but I’d walk one then do a days hard labour afterwards with minimal sleep. Don’t think the 20’s me could keep up & I rebuilt from not being able to walk & my partner wiping my butt to get there.

 

[DocMike]

Certainly not an expert but I use S&S on my off days. I strength train (I compete in PL) 4 days a week and perform S&S on the off days. My only change is to use Bent Press instead of TGU due to a knee issue (TGU hurts like crap but squatting 500 doesnt...weird). I find this works very well. When good weather comes back I will add sled work back into the regimen

 

[JR47]

I’m not claiming magnificent physique, strength & conditioning. But I’m closer to 50 than 40 in this photo. Haven’t entered any strength contests or tested my numbers in any specific exercises. But at the time I carried a full sized family fridge up a flight of stairs when my neighbor & his friend couldn’t manage it together. I’m not really educated enough to give an intelligent example of what I consider conditioning prowess. But I know I could rise at 2:30am & work for 12 hours straight, then come home do 45mins of mobility work & then the full S&S routine, then whatever gardening yard work my lovely partner decided needed doing, & then do whatever activities my son decided until the sun started to set.
At the time nothing but S&S, close to a full 12 months. 6-7 days a week. It’s all I had time for. It was the strongest most capable I’d felt in probably 10 years. Achieved simple then just stayed there until I owned it to the point of doing it daily as a warmup for something else. View attachment 23782

Respect.

You mentioned that you did about 45 mins mobility work prior to your S&S practice. What kind of stuff were you doing?

 

[JR47]

You got me there, I didn’t take that into account.
Heavy compound barbell exercises teenage years & early 20’s. Then a longtime doing mobility & body weight work trying to regain my strength, confidence in my body back after devastating back injury. Eventually discovered kettlebells, bought a book, joined a forum & tentatively eased back into moving weight via S&S.
I dug up old photos of myself from barbell days. I look bigger in the above photo of my S&S only body. But I think that’s got more to do with the old man muscle thickening that happens when you hit a certain age.
So………
Yeah you’re right. S&S pretty much woke up hibernating meat built decades earlier.
But as far as usable strength & reliable conditioning. Doubt I’d win any strength competitions, but I could help you move house manhandling furniture that takes 2 people, on my own. Couldn’t run a marathon, but I’d walk one then do a days hard labour afterwards with minimal sleep. Don’t think the 20’s me could keep up & I rebuilt from not being able to walk & my partner wiping my butt to get there.

No lie, this is one of the most impressive things I've read on this forum.

 

[Dydo]

Comments like this constantly leave me in a quandary as to what should be my priority. Both I want to look muscular and I think that if I focus on these things I won't have time for others, which for my already 50 years maybe are more important. I don't share the idea that things can go together. Either you want to look like a bodybuilder and for that you have to put in the necessary effort or you can accept and be satisfied that you just look athletic but have many other qualities.
Maybe I mentioned it another time in one of the topics in the forum, but in my country (I guess there are similar ones in many other countries) we have some TV formats in which you have to chop wood, cut with a saw, throw, carry, run, arrange objects and a lot others. I've been watching these formats for over 10 years now and the most muscular people are eliminated first. Some manage to get ahead, but never close to the finish line. Which is disgraceful. In the last such TV show, the top three finalists had nothing to do with people who did strength training. One was a former swimmer, the other a dancer, and the third played poker and was 40 years old. I mean, strength training wasn't their main thing, although they played sports and maybe went to the gym to tone up. A former Olympic gymnast who was 51 years old also reached the final. There were, of course, many athletic boys who went quite far, but in the end did not win and were eliminated. But the most muscular ones exposed themselves the most. And this happens in almost every TV show as I said before. Which should make us draw our own conclusions.