Nutrition 100% Carnivore

[Al Ciampa]

I just want to clear up a common confusion - if you are consuming coffee then you are not technically fasting. Since coffee goes through the liver and starts our "metabolic clock" effectively ending all the physiological responses to actual fasting. That's not to say you are getting SOME of the benefits of fasting by doing a "coffee fast", you certainly are, just not as much of the benefit as a true fast would give you.

I have to agree with this. I've been advising patients for some time now to forego caffeine ingestion prior to blood draws for testing because of this rationale. It may be moderate, but you are effectively no longer in a fasted state once caffeine begins to take effect.

 

[Michael Scott]

I can second this statement. When I go for my annual blood work draw, my PCM also recommended that I hold off on having my morning coffee until after the blood has been drawn.

I have to agree with this. I've been advising patients for some time now to forego caffeine ingestion prior to blood draws for testing because of this rationale. It may be moderate, but you are effectively no longer in a fasted state once caffeine begins to take effect.

 

[ali]

And bulletproof coffee's share price?

 

[paleo lifestyle]

How about switching out coffee for bone broth? But man...I love my coffee first thing in the AM. Fun Fact: As far back as the 18th century, no less a writer, thinker, and agitator than François-Marie Arouet, better known as Voltaire, "reportedly consumed somewhere between 40 and 50 cups of joe a day, apparently of a chocolate-coffee mixture. He lived into his eighties, though his doctor warned him that his beloved coffee would kill him."

 

[Snowman]

@paleo lifestyle I think it's important to identify what you're trying to accomplish with the fasting, and what you're trying to accomplish with the coffee. Both are means to and end. If you're trying to get all the benefits of a strict fast, anything besides water can be an issue. If you just want to burn fat for longer, coffee can help extend the duration of body fat catabolism. As I said before, I'm not a fan of pushing a fast too far past where your body would be able to do comfortably on it's own, but it goes back to goals again.

Bone broth contains a variety of nutrients, and sometimes fat. This would blunt some of the benefits of fasting, like coffee, but would also probably keep you in a fat burning state. The flavor can stimulate more hunger in some people (maybe that includes you, maybe not).

It may be worth noting that, on a diet devoid of carbohydrate, you're in predominantly fat burning mode all the time, although certain types of exercise do require more glucose usage.

I'm not suggesting that drop the coffee, but have a realistic idea of what it's doing for you, and what it's doing to you. You're having some issues with energy and mental clarity. This, combined with your AM schedule makes me think you would benefit from more sleep, and higher quality sleep. Having caffeine in the system keeps people awake, and prevents high quality sleep when they do fall asleep. My recommendation is that you do not have caffeine in your system when you try to fall asleep. The more coffee you drink, and the later you drink it, the more likely that is. Now, some people metabolize caffeine quickly, others more slowly. If memory serves, caffeine sticks around in most folks for 6-12 hours, but the real range is more like 2-24 hours. I get the feeling Voltaire was one of those 2 hour folks

 

[ali]

I've said it many times before to you coffee drinkers, drink tea.
Builder's tea or that posh herbal stuff, I won't judge. Camomile tea, no caffeine, sends you to sleep with dreams of British countryside with cows grazing on fresh green grass.

 

[Marc]

To be honest I do not see any reason why one should go 100% carnivore (if you are of the species Homo sapiens).

Sure, it is a good source of high quality protein but it is probably a suboptimal way to eat (you probably will not get sufficient vitamin C).

Humans are not carnivores by their physiology rather omnivores and a healthy human would do best with a balanced diet.
Also, most people who claim so actually do not have any "food sensitivities" or "intolerances".
Paleo is a very spongy term. Paleo in regard to which population? Paleolithic dwellers of the rainforest had a vastly different diet compared to humans in central Europe or subarctic America. There simply is no one paleo diet. And: paleolithic humans did not had most of the foods promoted by the so called paleo diet since these are a product of thousands of years of selective breeding for desired traits like size, sweetness, resistance to pests etc.
Your ruby red grapefruit is not a gift by mother nature but the end product of mutagenesis experiments.
"Mother" nature does not give a damn about you or your dietary needs or wishes!

 

[the hansenator]

Sure, it is a good source of high quality protein but it is probably a suboptimal way to eat (you probably will not get sufficient vitamin C).

You'd have to eat a lot of liver and organ meats. I understand that's where most of the nutrients are

 

[Marc]

You'd have to eat a lot of liver and organ meats. I understand that's where most of the nutrients are

But why would you want to if you could simply eat some fruit/vegetable.

 

[Antti]

But why would you want to if you could simply eat some fruit/vegetable.

Why would you want to eat some fruit/vegetable if you could simply eat some organ meats?

 

[Marc]

Just all around more convenient.
Again, I see no reason both in terms of convenience and from an evidence based standpoint why one should be 100% carnivore.

 

[North Coast Miller]

Why would you want to eat some fruit/vegetable if you could simply eat some organ meats?

Fruit and veg have carbs as well as mineral and vitamin. Gluconeogenesis is an inefficient way to get your glucose. Otherwise you'd need to eat a lot of blood-fresh meat or the blubber from diving marine mammals.

Or be permanently ketogenic.

 

[apa]

I have been following this thread as well as the zerocarb subreddit with great interest. r/zerocarb - READ THIS BEFORE POSTING [UPDATED]

It's great to discover something that radically changes our perception of what is good for us or not. Thanks to everyone contributing in this thread. I am not a nutritionist so I refrain from telling people what to do and what works for me.

 

[Antti]

Fruit and veg have carbs as well as mineral and vitamin. Gluconeogenesis is an inefficient way to get your glucose. Otherwise you'd need to eat a lot of blood-fresh meat or the blubber from diving marine mammals.

Or be permanently ketogenic.

I only referred to the content of vitamins, minerals, etc., not as an energy source. I think liver is quite likely the most nutrient dense food there is.

 

[ali]

Yes ,liver is great. With caramelised onions it's even better. No argument that liver is a nutrient dense slab of goodness, onions not only zap the taste buds but also provide further nutrients, not less.

That link, in the blurb it says:

"Eating meat (avoiding plant foods) and drinking water gets a person 98% of the way there"

.....where? I don't understand any of it.

 

[Marc]

Since Liver is the main organ involved in detoxification, it is not something you should eat too often. But I agree, it is very nutritional (just don't eat it top often and don't eat a whole icebear liver or you will die of vitamin A overdose).

 

[North Coast Miller]

Yes ,liver is great. With caramelised onions it's even better. No argument that liver is a nutrient dense slab of goodness, onions not only zap the taste buds but also provide further nutrients, not less.

That link, in the blurb it says:

"Eating meat (avoiding plant foods) and drinking water gets a person 98% of the way there"

.....where? I don't understand any of it.

Liver and onions was one of the few dinners my father would prepare probably because no one else would make it...cube steak being the other.

Is pretty tasty if done right. The liver that is, IDK what it takes to make cube steak pleasantly edible.

 

[Groove Greaser]

Since Liver is the main organ involved in detoxification, it is not something you should eat too often. But I agree, it is very nutritional (just don't eat it top often and don't eat a whole icebear liver or you will die of vitamin A overdose).

The common paleo reply (others with more of a background in biology please chime in to correct or affirm me) is that while it's true that the liver is involved in detoxification it doesn't actually STORE toxins. Toxins are either excreted or wrapped in fat so they can be "safely stored" in the body. This is also related to the paleo communities emphasis on purchasing high quality meats (an emphasis that is, interestingly, not common in the carnivore community) - so that the fat is as healthy as possible.

 

[Marc]

As far as I know (got a little background in biology) some toxins are indeed deposited in the liver and fat tissue (especially in older animals).
Eating gras fed / wild animals and their products is of course prefered.

 

[ali]

The Carnivore Diet Is the Latest Fad to Ignore That Food Does More Than Just Feed Us - Tonic

A well written and argued piece about reducing everything down to nutrition and missing out on many pleasures that life can offer. It is focused on carnivore but it really could be any 'miracle' diet.