Barbell Help - Zercher Squat Form

[Chase Hines]

I’ve been using Zerchers as my main squat movement for the past few months and have seen incredible WTH effects that have spilled over into daily life & other movement practices.

I’m currently doing them as weekly practice 3-4 times per week at 135-185lbs.

Looking for feedback on my form before I push towards 225.

 

[Antti]

It looks like you good morning the bar instead of squat it off the rack.

It looks like the bar is too light and you have it too forward of you. Either the camera angle lies or you should have more load on the bar.

You take way too long to start squatting.

It's hard to say but there may be some unwanted rotation. Maybe it would be easy to see with more than just a single. In general, I would do three or five reps on a video like this.

I would squat more between the legs instead of aiming so far behind. But it is a point where there is some disagreement to be found.

I like how constant your back angle is and how it looks.

Keep it up, the zercher is a great lift and there's a lot of fun to be had with it.

 

[Chase Hines]

It looks like you good morning the bar instead of squat it off the rack.

It looks like the bar is too light and you have it too forward of you. Either the camera angle lies or you should have more load on the bar.

You take way too long to start squatting.

It's hard to say but there may be some unwanted rotation. Maybe it would be easy to see with more than just a single. In general, I would do three or five reps on a video like this.

I would squat more between the legs instead of aiming so far behind. But it is a point where there is some disagreement to be found.

I like how constant your back angle is and how it looks.

Keep it up, the zercher is a great lift and there's a lot of fun to be had with it.

Thanks!

My rack is high enough to where I don’t really have to do anything but but hook under it to take the weight so I don’t really have to squat it up.

It must be the camera angle. My rack position changes a bit when I add weight but it always ends up somewhere around mid-foot

Normally I wouldn’t take that long to setup but got the sake of this perfect single I took my time.

I’ve played around with 6 o’clock straight into the hole path and just simply prefer the 8 o’clock hinge style.

Can you expand upon “unwanted rotation”?

 

[Antti]

Even if your rack is high, I would unrack it with the knees instead of the lower back.

I understand the desire to take things perfect for the camera. However, we should aim for similar perfection on every single rep. Seeking this perfection, we should always consider it as if we had our 1RM on the bar. If you had your 1RM on the bar in that video, you would have failed.

Regarding the unwanted rotation, your upper torso alignment changes first as you ascend and then as you go to rack the bar. As it is a single, it is unclear whether if it is related to racking the bar or if it happens on every rep.

 

[Chase Hines]

Even if your rack is high, I would unrack it with the knees instead of the lower back.

I understand the desire to take things perfect for the camera. However, we should aim for similar perfection on every single rep. Seeking this perfection, we should always consider it as if we had our 1RM on the bar. If you had your 1RM on the bar in that video, you would have failed.

Regarding the unwanted rotation, your upper torso alignment changes first as you ascend and then as you go to rack the bar. As it is a single, it is unclear whether if it is related to racking the bar or if it happens on every rep.

That makes sense.

I’m currently doing 2x1-2-3-2-1 three or four times per week. I’ll have to take a video of my double or triple at 185 for comparison.

I’ve noticed the upper torso shift as well. It happens when I loose tension. It can happen at any time during the movement that I don’t actively maintain tension in the rack/upper back.

I’ll never chase 1RM on this lift. I feel like if I’m able to use 225 few times a week with perfect form it’ll provide me the results I want.

 

[Anna C]

@Antti makes some great observations.

You might try looking out instead of looking down and keeping a big chest to fight any tendency of chest collapsing in and t-spine rounding. This might help with the tension in the rack/upper back that you mentioned.

Double or triple video when you get a chance might provide more insight.

 

[Chase Hines]

@Antti makes some great observations.

You might try looking out instead of looking down and keeping a big chest to fight any tendency of chest collapsing in and t-spine rounding. This might help with the tension in the rack/upper back that you mentioned.

Double or triple video when you get a chance might provide more insight.

Thanks Anna!

I’ll post a double or triple with more weight on Monday.

Aside from the upper back, does everything everything else look solid?

 

[Bauer]

I’ve been using Zerchers as my main squat movement for the past few months and have seen incredible WTH effects that have spilled over into daily life & other movement practices.

I’m currently doing them as weekly practice 3-4 times per week at 135-185lbs.

Looking for feedback on my form before I push towards 225.

Have you come across this tutorial on the Zercher Squat? It is a free sample of the SF BB course:

StrongFirst: Training Center

strongfirst.skilltrain.com

 

[Anna C]

Aside from the upper back, does everything everything else look solid?

Yes, I'd say so, though I agree with @Antti's points about the set up. Get loaded, squat the bar off the rack using your legs, take one step back with each leg directly to your squat stance, fully stand with hips extended and glutes engaged (currently you have a "soft" stance with a bit of hip flexion before you squat), then squat. Keep reaching back with your butt to counteract any rounding of the low back. I like your back angle also. More like a low bar back squat, which is the better way to zercher squat, IMO. (As Doc Hartle says, if you're going to squat more in a front squat / goblet squat form, just do those things; you're hurting your elbows for no reason). The squat itself looks good!

 

[Chase Hines]

Yes, I'd say so, though I agree with @Antti's points about the set up. Get loaded, squat the bar off the rack using your legs, take one step back with each leg directly to your squat stance, fully stand with hips extended and glutes engaged (currently you have a "soft" stance with a bit of hip flexion before you squat), then squat. Keep reaching back with your butt to counteract any rounding of the low back. I like your back angle also. More like a low bar back squat, which is the better way to zercher squat, IMO. (As Doc Hartle says, if you're going to squat more in a front squat / goblet squat form, just do those things; you're hurting your elbows for no reason). The squat itself looks good!

Thank you!

 

[Chase Hines]

Have you come across this tutorial on the Zercher Squat? It is a free sample of the SF BB course:

StrongFirst: Training Center

strongfirst.skilltrain.com

I have. Love it. I’ve shared with a few folks that are also exploring the Zercher movements.

 

[Chase Hines]

@Anna C @Antti @Bauer

Here’s some additional looks.

Decided to give 225 a ride and it moved pretty well.

185x3 off the floor


225 off the rack


225 off the floor

 

[Antti]

Looks good!

I would tune the stance while squatting if I started off the floor. It also looks like you're not totally comfortable with the stance between reps.

You lose a bit of tightness when you finish your last rep and squat so that the bar comes to and is on your legs.

On the last video, I would first stabilize the bar and only then start the ascent.

All in all very nice, just keep on grinding, rep after rep!

 

[Chase Hines]

Looks good!

I would tune the stance while squatting if I started off the floor. It also looks like you're not totally comfortable with the stance between reps.

You lose a bit of tightness when you finish your last rep and squat so that the bar comes to and is on your legs.

On the last video, I would first stabilize the bar and only then start the ascent.

All in all very nice, just keep on grinding, rep after rep!

Thanks! I’m definitely not 100% comfortable with the full lift from the floor YET. My journey with Zerchers started from the rack but I’ve started to add in from the floor work over the past couple weeks. Really enjoying it but it needs more work.

Any advice on maintaining tension when transitioning from the squat to the DL?

 

[Hardartery]

Thanks! I’m definitely not 100% comfortable with the full lift from the floor YET. My journey with Zerchers started from the rack but I’ve started to add in from the floor work over the past couple weeks. Really enjoying it but it needs more work.

Any advice on maintaining tension when transitioning from the squat to the DL?

From the floor is a difference as big as the universe. Cradling from the knees carries no benefit over picking from the rack, and IMO 95% of the benefit of a Zercher is in the part you are not doing. You are never "Ready" to pick from the floor, you just do it. Period. Go as light as you need to, but go from the floor.

 

[Anna C]

Agree with @Antti , those look good!

From the floor is a difference as big as the universe. Cradling from the knees carries no benefit over picking from the rack, and IMO 95% of the benefit of a Zercher is in the part you are not doing. You are never "Ready" to pick from the floor, you just do it. Period. Go as light as you need to, but go from the floor.

I won't argue as I've only done Zerchers from the floor a few times (@Steve Freides has done more and could probably comment), but I would still say that Zerchers NOT done from the floor have as much benefit as an exercise as other squat variations with the bar on the shoulders PLUS a bit more work for the abs. So it's not like there's no value. But if you're saying 96% of the unique benefit of a Zercher is the part you're not doing, I guess I could see that.

 

[Chase Hines]

Agree with @Antti , those look good!



I won't argue as I've only done Zerchers from the floor a few times (@Steve Freides has done more and could probably comment), but I would still say that Zerchers NOT done from the floor have as much benefit as an exercise as other squat variations with the bar on the shoulders PLUS a bit more work for the abs. So it's not like there's no value. But if you're saying 96% of the unique benefit of a Zercher is the part you're not doing, I guess I could see that.

I agree @Anna C

I’ve already seen some great WTH effects from practicing them solely from the rack. Everything seems to be moving a bit better. I believe it’s all related to the tension the Zercher position forces you create. That level of tension is now transferring into other movement practices.

 

[Hardartery]

Agree with @Antti , those look good!



But if you're saying 96% of the unique benefit of a Zercher is the part you're not doing, I guess I could see that.

That's exactly what I'm saying. I don't see any point in the pick to the legs, it's just more dangerous than the other possibilities. I am a huge fan of Zerchers from the floor, I think they correct a lot of deficiencies you may not even realize exist before you do them.

 

[Steve Freides]

To be sure we're all talking about the same thing:

Zercher _Squat_ is either from a rack, or you deadlift it, set it on your thighs, and then you squat it much the same way as you would if you'd started from the rack.

Zercher _Deadlift_ is bar on the floor, and you bend way down and get the bar in your elbows while it's still on the floor, and stand up with it from the ground.

I agree with @Anna C in that the main benefit of the ZSQ is the squat itself, from upright to squatting and back up again. It's also important to perform it as a hip hinge - sit back into your ZSQ.

The ZDL is another thing entirely. Note, however, that people who demonstrate it starting in a very deep squat can almost always _not_ perform this movement this way once the weight gets heavy. There's a picture of Pavel doing this at Stu McGill's, and if you go to YouTube and look up Zercher Deadlift Steve Freides, you'll find me doing 180 lb x 2 and then singles at 175 and 200 lbs.

-S-

 

[Hardartery]

To be sure we're all talking about the same thing:

Zercher _Squat_ is either from a rack, or you deadlift it, set it on your thighs, and then you squat it much the same way as you would if you'd started from the rack.

Zercher _Deadlift_ is bar on the floor, and you bend way down and get the bar in your elbows while it's still on the floor, and stand up with it from the ground.

I agree with @Anna C in that the main benefit of the ZSQ is the squat itself, from upright to squatting and back up again. It's also important to perform it as a hip hinge - sit back into your ZSQ.

The ZDL is another thing entirely. Note, however, that people who demonstrate it starting in a very deep squat can almost always _not_ perform this movement this way. There's a picture of Pavel doing this at Stu McGill's, and if you go to YouTube and look up Zercher Deadlift Steve Freides, you'll find me doing 180 lb x 2 and then singles at 175 and 200 lbs.

-S-

My "Rule of thumb" is, the weight is just right when it causes a sharp pain in the center of your forehead on the first rep. I have done more than 400 lbs using an Axle, if we're throwing numbers out there. I think it was 415, but that log was on a forum that disappeared a long time ago so now I can't check.