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Kettlebell A+A Appropriate Movements

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Is there a go-to article or program for the A+A protocol? I had seen it originally used swings, then went to snatches as the preferred method, but what is the actual protocol?

There is no single protocol. @Al Ciampa is credited by Pavel for being the originator of A+A, and he has an article about it here. He has many protocols, but you would need to use the contact form on his web site to inquire about access to the BWAS Strength & Wellness Center (forum). @Ryan T is currently managing that.

Pavel has A+A templates in the Strong Endurance manual, but you need to attend that seminar.

Other than that, the article above is a good starting point, and was one of Al's earliest. There are many threads about A+A here on the forum that you can search for.

Here is the basic idea of A+A: Do something hard (i.e. 5 hardstyle max power snatches w/ 24kg kettlebell), rest for about a minute, and then repeat. Again and again. Train 2-4 days per week and do 15-60 repeats per session, varying the duration for each session somewhat randomly. Progress volume over time as hands and body can tolerate. It can be a very "complete" way to train... There were weeks at a time where literally all I did for training was heavy kettlebell snatch in A+A format. But most people say now it pairs best with LSD cardio like running or rucking on other training days.
 
Here is the basic idea of A+A: Do something hard (i.e. 5 hardstyle max power snatches w/ 24kg kettlebell), rest for about a minute, and then repeat. Again and again. Train 2-4 days per week and do 15-60 repeats per session, varying the duration for each session somewhat randomly. Progress volume over time as hands and body can tolerate. It can be a very "complete" way to train... There were weeks at a time where literally all I did for training was heavy kettlebell snatch in A+A format. But most people say now it pairs best with LSD cardio like running or rucking on other training days.
@Anna C I rather like the ultraminimalism of this (and incidentally the snatch version of Quick and the Dead). Later this year when my gym access is going to change due to time constraints I'll find myself using GTG calisthenics and programs like the ultraminimalist Q&D or A&A plus roadwork as my means.
 
It's important to keep things straight here. The Q&D or A+A schemes "work" with strength training but the results will be different and not yield some of the benefits Q&D talks about, and the same for A+A. But any scheme that lets you train strength in short sets on long rests is almost good by definition. The results will be different - you'll get stronger at the lifts you practice.

IDK exactly what "will work" means to the OP - my responses are based on my interpretation, which is "will let you improve at the lifts you've asked about."

-S-
 
There is no single protocol. @Al Ciampa is credited by Pavel for being the originator of A+A, and he has an article about it here. He has many protocols, but you would need to use the contact form on his web site to inquire about access to the BWAS Strength & Wellness Center (forum). @Ryan T is currently managing that.

Pavel has A+A templates in the Strong Endurance manual, but you need to attend that seminar.

Other than that, the article above is a good starting point, and was one of Al's earliest. There are many threads about A+A here on the forum that you can search for.

Here is the basic idea of A+A: Do something hard (i.e. 5 hardstyle max power snatches w/ 24kg kettlebell), rest for about a minute, and then repeat. Again and again. Train 2-4 days per week and do 15-60 repeats per session, varying the duration for each session somewhat randomly. Progress volume over time as hands and body can tolerate. It can be a very "complete" way to train... There were weeks at a time where literally all I did for training was heavy kettlebell snatch in A+A format. But most people say now it pairs best with LSD cardio like running or rucking on other training days.
This article by Craig Marker about HIRT (High Intensity Repeat Training) would fall under that category also then.
 
Thanks all for your replies,

@Steve Freides @Anna C I hadn’t thought about what I meant by what “will work” until you asked the question. I was trying to understand which movements lend themselves best to the A+A protocol and the responses here have answered that question.

My training at the moment is a combination of strength aerobics/iron cardio focused on clean, press, front squat, pull ups; A+A using swings and snatches; and low heart rate running/rucking.
 
Here is the basic idea of A+A: Do something hard (i.e. 5 hardstyle max power snatches w/ 24kg kettlebell), rest for about a minute, and then repeat. Again and again. Train 2-4 days per week and do 15-60 repeats per session, varying the duration for each session somewhat randomly. Progress volume over time as hands and body can tolerate.

Would you mind expanding on what to look for to progress weight / reps / density and how to decide which (of weight / reps / density) to progress
 
Would you mind expanding on what to look for to progress weight / reps / density and how to decide which (of weight / reps / density) to progress

Sure... keeping in mind I'm a practitioner with experience, but not a designer of the programs.

Let's say I could pass a 5-min snatch test (100 reps, unlimited hand switches) with a 16kg. And I could snatch a 20kg for 6 or 8 sets of 5 reps, but it was pretty hard. And I could snatch a 24kg for 1-3 reps on the good side on a strong day. This is about where I was when I started A+A snatching, and that was after 2 years of S&S, SFG, and A+A swing protocols. But I'd guess this is probably a common starting point for most men, also.

Training 3-4 times per week, I would spend several weeks snatching 16kg for sets of 5, always switching hands each set/repeat. For me, and others who trained snatches to pass the 5-min test, the nuances of the movement get lost in the rush to gain efficiency to pass the snatch test. So you have to slow things way down and pay a lot more attention to every part of the movement. Careful, precise, powerful... but taking time with set-up, pausing in lockout, being patient in the backswing. Fixing alignment, learning to tame the arc, figuring out how to use the breath, paying attention to the rooting of the feet. All that and more. Taking plenty of rest between each set/repeat... at least a minute, maybe 2 minutes. Practice delivering a powerful movement, but don't be too concerned with the time it takes to do the repeat. Get the movement down.

Then I would start of add some repeats of the 20kg. A few more each session, working up to 20 repeats of 5 with the 20kg, with more rest between repeats as needed. I'd start to be more efficient with the delivery of the 5 reps, so just a brief pause in lockout, knocking out the 5 reps fast but solid. This might take another few weeks. One day I might be feeling good and push it to 30 repeats, or 150 reps total. The next session I might just do 10 repeats. I'd keep track of the total weekly volume and see it going up over time. Never pushing past what the hands can take and taking good care of calluses. Hand tears will set you back a couple of weeks at least.

Working up again to the 24kg for repeats, again mixing in with the 20kg over several weeks until 20 repeats with the 24kg is a solid session, not too hard but not easy. I think this is when you can really get some good out of it. The technique is good, the body can handle some volume, you know how to generate power, and you're using a weight heavy enough to require a significant power.

So now, a proper 6- week protocol with the 24kg snatches in repeats of 5. Here you can get creative -- Al has one protocol that mixes weight, so I was doing 20, 24, and 28 alternately and mixed in each session -- but a basic protocol would use all the same weight, and that works too. So let's say it's all with the 24kg. Week 1 might have sessions of 16, 24, 20, 28 repeats. Week 2, 3, and 4 similar but slightly increasing total weekly volume, and the longest session of the week pushing into the 30s for repeat numbers. Some weeks with 3 sessions. Week 5 a deload week with half the volume and at least one easy session of 12 or 14 repeats. Week 6 back to week 4 volume and maybe an extra long session with 36 or 40 repeats.

The numbers for the repeats I may not have quite right because they are based on Plan Strong programming, the Delta 20 principle I think it is, and I haven't attended that. So I'm just approximating.

After all that volume, you'll notice your muscles are harder, maybe some hypertrophy, maybe some fat loss. Conditioning is good and HR drops a lot quicker after repeats. Grip is super strong and enduring. Legs are strong and powerful. Shoulders are open and stable.

So on it goes -- you can progress onward to snatching 28, 32, even 36, and 40... several men have. All with a similar progression scheme. Sometimes following a dedicated 6 week program, other times just progressing organically and autoregulating.

It's a style of training that can literally go on for years, and still keep delivering benefits.

So you might notice that I didn't change the reps. These can also be done -- up to 10 reps can work, but the effects are a little different. It goes beyond the alactic "interval" and a bit more into glycolysis. So for pure A+A, stick with 5 reps, at least with snatches. But nothing "bad" happens if you go beyond 5. Some say it's more hypertrophy-inducing.

You'll also notice that I really didn't address density. The rest periods may decrease a bit... but not a lot. EMOM is about as fast as it gets, and mostly it doesn't even get that fast for pure A+A. You just are able to do a harder work set -- snatch the 28kg for 5 reps and recover in 1 min 15 sec, where you used to snatch the 20kg for 5 reps and recover in 1 min 15 sec. You won't really see your recovery get significantly faster, like down to 30 or 40 sec. It just doesn't happen. Therefore, for pure A+A, stick with longer rests. Now, some people start out needing a LOT of rest, like 3 minutes for the HR to come down, and they will see significant improvement over time as they get aerobically fitter. LSD cardio can really help this transformation, and may even be required.

TL;DR: You progress weight, and total repeats. :) And this may continue over many, many weeks and years.
 
Sure... keeping in mind I'm a practitioner with experience, but not a designer of the programs.

Let's say I could pass a 5-min snatch test (100 reps, unlimited hand switches) with a 16kg. And I could snatch a 20kg for 6 or 8 sets of 5 reps, but it was pretty hard. And I could snatch a 24kg for 1-3 reps on the good side on a strong day. This is about where I was when I started A+A snatching, and that was after 2 years of S&S, SFG, and A+A swing protocols. But I'd guess this is probably a common starting point for most men, also.

Training 3-4 times per week, I would spend several weeks snatching 16kg for sets of 5, always switching hands each set/repeat. For me, and others who trained snatches to pass the 5-min test, the nuances of the movement get lost in the rush to gain efficiency to pass the snatch test. So you have to slow things way down and pay a lot more attention to every part of the movement. Careful, precise, powerful... but taking time with set-up, pausing in lockout, being patient in the backswing. Fixing alignment, learning to tame the arc, figuring out how to use the breath, paying attention to the rooting of the feet. All that and more. Taking plenty of rest between each set/repeat... at least a minute, maybe 2 minutes. Practice delivering a powerful movement, but don't be too concerned with the time it takes to do the repeat. Get the movement down.

Then I would start of add some repeats of the 20kg. A few more each session, working up to 20 repeats of 5 with the 20kg, with more rest between repeats as needed. I'd start to be more efficient with the delivery of the 5 reps, so just a brief pause in lockout, knocking out the 5 reps fast but solid. This might take another few weeks. One day I might be feeling good and push it to 30 repeats, or 150 reps total. The next session I might just do 10 repeats. I'd keep track of the total weekly volume and see it going up over time. Never pushing past what the hands can take and taking good care of calluses. Hand tears will set you back a couple of weeks at least.

Working up again to the 24kg for repeats, again mixing in with the 20kg over several weeks until 20 repeats with the 24kg is a solid session, not too hard but not easy. I think this is when you can really get some good out of it. The technique is good, the body can handle some volume, you know how to generate power, and you're using a weight heavy enough to require a significant power.

So now, a proper 6- week protocol with the 24kg snatches in repeats of 5. Here you can get creative -- Al has one protocol that mixes weight, so I was doing 20, 24, and 28 alternately and mixed in each session -- but a basic protocol would use all the same weight, and that works too. So let's say it's all with the 24kg. Week 1 might have sessions of 16, 24, 20, 28 repeats. Week 2, 3, and 4 similar but slightly increasing total weekly volume, and the longest session of the week pushing into the 30s for repeat numbers. Some weeks with 3 sessions. Week 5 a deload week with half the volume and at least one easy session of 12 or 14 repeats. Week 6 back to week 4 volume and maybe an extra long session with 36 or 40 repeats.

The numbers for the repeats I may not have quite right because they are based on Plan Strong programming, the Delta 20 principle I think it is, and I haven't attended that. So I'm just approximating.

After all that volume, you'll notice your muscles are harder, maybe some hypertrophy, maybe some fat loss. Conditioning is good and HR drops a lot quicker after repeats. Grip is super strong and enduring. Legs are strong and powerful. Shoulders are open and stable.

So on it goes -- you can progress onward to snatching 28, 32, even 36, and 40... several men have. All with a similar progression scheme. Sometimes following a dedicated 6 week program, other times just progressing organically and autoregulating.

It's a style of training that can literally go on for years, and still keep delivering benefits.

So you might notice that I didn't change the reps. These can also be done -- up to 10 reps can work, but the effects are a little different. It goes beyond the alactic "interval" and a bit more into glycolysis. So for pure A+A, stick with 5 reps, at least with snatches. But nothing "bad" happens if you go beyond 5. Some say it's more hypertrophy-inducing.

You'll also notice that I really didn't address density. The rest periods may decrease a bit... but not a lot. EMOM is about as fast as it gets, and mostly it doesn't even get that fast for pure A+A. You just are able to do a harder work set -- snatch the 28kg for 5 reps and recover in 1 min 15 sec, where you used to snatch the 20kg for 5 reps and recover in 1 min 15 sec. You won't really see your recovery get significantly faster, like down to 30 or 40 sec. It just doesn't happen. Therefore, for pure A+A, stick with longer rests. Now, some people start out needing a LOT of rest, like 3 minutes for the HR to come down, and they will see significant improvement over time as they get aerobically fitter. LSD cardio can really help this transformation, and may even be required.

TL;DR: You progress weight, and total repeats. :) And this may continue over many, many weeks and years.
This is brilliant Anna.
 
Sure... keeping in mind I'm a practitioner with experience, but not a designer of the programs.

Let's say I could pass a 5-min snatch test (100 reps, unlimited hand switches) with a 16kg. And I could snatch a 20kg for 6 or 8 sets of 5 reps, but it was pretty hard. And I could snatch a 24kg for 1-3 reps on the good side on a strong day. This is about where I was when I started A+A snatching, and that was after 2 years of S&S, SFG, and A+A swing protocols. But I'd guess this is probably a common starting point for most men, also.

Training 3-4 times per week, I would spend several weeks snatching 16kg for sets of 5, always switching hands each set/repeat. For me, and others who trained snatches to pass the 5-min test, the nuances of the movement get lost in the rush to gain efficiency to pass the snatch test. So you have to slow things way down and pay a lot more attention to every part of the movement. Careful, precise, powerful... but taking time with set-up, pausing in lockout, being patient in the backswing. Fixing alignment, learning to tame the arc, figuring out how to use the breath, paying attention to the rooting of the feet. All that and more. Taking plenty of rest between each set/repeat... at least a minute, maybe 2 minutes. Practice delivering a powerful movement, but don't be too concerned with the time it takes to do the repeat. Get the movement down.

Then I would start of add some repeats of the 20kg. A few more each session, working up to 20 repeats of 5 with the 20kg, with more rest between repeats as needed. I'd start to be more efficient with the delivery of the 5 reps, so just a brief pause in lockout, knocking out the 5 reps fast but solid. This might take another few weeks. One day I might be feeling good and push it to 30 repeats, or 150 reps total. The next session I might just do 10 repeats. I'd keep track of the total weekly volume and see it going up over time. Never pushing past what the hands can take and taking good care of calluses. Hand tears will set you back a couple of weeks at least.

Working up again to the 24kg for repeats, again mixing in with the 20kg over several weeks until 20 repeats with the 24kg is a solid session, not too hard but not easy. I think this is when you can really get some good out of it. The technique is good, the body can handle some volume, you know how to generate power, and you're using a weight heavy enough to require a significant power.

So now, a proper 6- week protocol with the 24kg snatches in repeats of 5. Here you can get creative -- Al has one protocol that mixes weight, so I was doing 20, 24, and 28 alternately and mixed in each session -- but a basic protocol would use all the same weight, and that works too. So let's say it's all with the 24kg. Week 1 might have sessions of 16, 24, 20, 28 repeats. Week 2, 3, and 4 similar but slightly increasing total weekly volume, and the longest session of the week pushing into the 30s for repeat numbers. Some weeks with 3 sessions. Week 5 a deload week with half the volume and at least one easy session of 12 or 14 repeats. Week 6 back to week 4 volume and maybe an extra long session with 36 or 40 repeats.

The numbers for the repeats I may not have quite right because they are based on Plan Strong programming, the Delta 20 principle I think it is, and I haven't attended that. So I'm just approximating.

After all that volume, you'll notice your muscles are harder, maybe some hypertrophy, maybe some fat loss. Conditioning is good and HR drops a lot quicker after repeats. Grip is super strong and enduring. Legs are strong and powerful. Shoulders are open and stable.

So on it goes -- you can progress onward to snatching 28, 32, even 36, and 40... several men have. All with a similar progression scheme. Sometimes following a dedicated 6 week program, other times just progressing organically and autoregulating.

It's a style of training that can literally go on for years, and still keep delivering benefits.

So you might notice that I didn't change the reps. These can also be done -- up to 10 reps can work, but the effects are a little different. It goes beyond the alactic "interval" and a bit more into glycolysis. So for pure A+A, stick with 5 reps, at least with snatches. But nothing "bad" happens if you go beyond 5. Some say it's more hypertrophy-inducing.

You'll also notice that I really didn't address density. The rest periods may decrease a bit... but not a lot. EMOM is about as fast as it gets, and mostly it doesn't even get that fast for pure A+A. You just are able to do a harder work set -- snatch the 28kg for 5 reps and recover in 1 min 15 sec, where you used to snatch the 20kg for 5 reps and recover in 1 min 15 sec. You won't really see your recovery get significantly faster, like down to 30 or 40 sec. It just doesn't happen. Therefore, for pure A+A, stick with longer rests. Now, some people start out needing a LOT of rest, like 3 minutes for the HR to come down, and they will see significant improvement over time as they get aerobically fitter. LSD cardio can really help this transformation, and may even be required.

TL;DR: You progress weight, and total repeats. :) And this may continue over many, many weeks and years.

In Q&D, Pavel states that it tolerates additional strength training, would this replace your normal strength training or be in addition to it? I Saw that Al says it leaves you feeling fresh instead of beating you up due to the long rest periods, but does that mean you should/could add additional strength work to something like this?
 
In Q&D, Pavel states that it tolerates additional strength training, would this replace your normal strength training or be in addition to it? I Saw that Al says it leaves you feeling fresh instead of beating you up due to the long rest periods, but does that mean you should/could add additional strength work to something like this?
As I described it, it's the main thing and replaces normal strength training. There is no way I'd be able to do a strength program like 5/3/1, PTTP, Reload, Starting Strength, 5x5, or anything like that along with it.

But it's not like you can't do anything else. You might add something like deadlift 2x/week at a maintenance level, or work on a strength skill like pistol squats or push-ups. I actually did my SFB prep while doing A+A snatches for my main programming (Training Log Feb-Apr 2019). You just can't put a heavy demand on your body to adapt to strength training. Especially if you're also trying to add a decent volume of LSD cardio. Too many irons in the fire.

However, if you "demote" A+A to the secondary thing, you can do maybe 2 moderate sessions a week of A+A along with whatever strength training you're doing. You just won't progress very fast at all or got a lot of adaptations out of it other than building skill with the movements. Most of the adaptations from A+A (in my opinion) come from the volume of work.
 
Would you mind expanding on what to look for to progress weight / reps / density and how to decide which (of weight / reps / density) to progress
Not to take away from the amazing write up that @Anna C put together for you, @Louka83 put out a fantastic video today that talks about Strong Endurance strategies for swings. Might be worth looking at.

 
Not to take away from the amazing write up that @Anna C put together for you, @Louka83 put out a fantastic video today that talks about Strong Endurance strategies for swings. Might be worth looking at.


Yes. Very much worth.
I looked at my snatch logs, and it perfectly correlates with what said in the video.
Work to rest rate:
1/5-1/6 - comfortable, AGT, strength
1/4 - starting to reach Z4 & LT, more glycolithic, strength - endurance
1/3 to 1/2 - glycolithic peaking, endurance - strength
Calculate the w/r of all mentioned in the video, mostly similar.
Using this blueprint for a while, never failed me.
 
OK, I think I had confused A+A with Strength Aerobics.
I've reread the bewellandstrong.com website by @Al Ciampa , and I hadn't understood that subtle difference of requiring high power.
Or perhaps it's less subtle...
 
The latest email newsletter is titled "Best general exercises for A+A". @Steve Freides not sure if I can quote from the newsletter but it refers to the use of both explosive and grind movements for A+A.

Interested in advice whether you would program grind movements differently to explosive movements for A+A. Thanks!
 
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The latest email newsletter is titled "Best general exercises for A+A". @Steve Freides not sure if I can quote from the newsletter but it refers to the use of both explosive and grind movements for A+A.

Interested in advice whether you would program grind movements differently to explosive movements for A=A. Thanks!
IIRC, @Harald Motz takes a 2-6RM weight and does 1/3 to 2/3 of max reps per set (i.e. 1-3 reps per set). Mostly stuff like a lot of singles with 2-3RM bell (could probably also work with a 4-5RM bell).

I think Iron Cardio by @Brett Jones will also shed light on this. It is probably also individual how much quality work you can do at which percentage of 1RM.

That being said, the SF-KB product also employs three different weights for TGUs, so lighter weights seem to be fine, too, when alternated with heavier days.

StrongEndurance is, I think, about training endurance at the desired intensity. Thus, depending on your needs or wants it might differ a bit.
 
Hello,

In the last newletter (do not know if I can post it or not so I can do it if @Steve Freides says it's ok) this topic is covered ;)

Kind regards,

Pet'
As is our usual policy, please don't reprint the entire thing here, but it's OK to mention some of the particulars in order to have a discussion with those who've read the newsletter.

-S-
 
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