watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
That would be a special individual!
Getting ready for a colonoscopy I didn’t lose more than 3lbs
Cutting weight for competition would be so much easier if I could just drop 20 lbs via an enema.
That would be a special individual!
Getting ready for a colonoscopy I didn’t lose more than 3lbs
I appreciate the response! I'd say try not to jump 3 assumptions ahead, my goal here is information, not a fad extreme diet: that's why I'm posting here instead of trawling YouTube.Do you know why there is a family history of type 2 diabetes?
It's usually labelled as lifestyle dominant but it isn't always an outcome of excess energy and inactivity.
If there is genetic/family history underlying a biological cause ie liver disease? Or is it cultural and environmental ie over eating and sedentary behaviour? Or a mixture of the 2? Or a blended type 1 and type 2?
I'd discuss this with a diabetic specialist.
.....and before embarking on any extreme diet.
Just eat less than you do now. Cut out the crap.
As said by @NorthCoastMiller , exercise is a potent intervention for health. A simple way is to go for a walk after you've eaten and do whatever other more formal exercise you choose and like. And walk more generally....move more, be more active. A low stress ticket. Gentle.
Get a base established. Good eating habits be more active.....why go for some sudden optimisation or extreme?
Don't let perfect be the enemy of the good.
A 3 meal a day thing of good food....we all know what that is....and for fat loss, lean protein, fruit and veg. As diverse as possible. Limit starch and fat.
Probably not perfect, nothing is, but very sustainable. Add some energy when and if you need it in the form of starch and/or fat.
Good luck.
I've actually read quite contrary data regarding fasting vs. Caloric restriction in Dr. Jason Fung's books, the Obesity Code and the Diabetes Code. Dr. Andrew Huberman covered the relevant studies on the "16-8" fasting method on his podcast Since type 2 is the biggest focus for me, naturally it's where I focus. Parsing some of that data out it seems when people half-a#@ fasting, they get minimal results ESPECIALLY if not COMBINED with low carb high fat or keto diets - I think this is also true on the opposite side of health or fitness journeys for people - once they have achieved a good level of fitness or weight loss, the need for fasting to weight loss is diminished, and can be easily maintained doing 3 meals a day that are whole real food and sans the coca cola or other issues.When it comes to fat loss, is there really?
Even (non-dry) intermittent fasting has been shown to be nothing special when normalized for caloric intake.
i.e. if you equalize calories, people who used time-restricted eating windows didn't exhibit superior fat loss to those who ate whenever
If we're talking anti-aging and autophagy, everything I've seen is related to caloric restriction, not dehydration.
I wouldn't put too much stock into Dr Fung's books. He is very good at cherry picking data to arrive at his conclusions.I've actually read quite contrary data regarding fasting vs. Caloric restriction in Dr. Jason Fung's books, the Obesity Code and the Diabetes Code. Dr. Andrew Huberman covered the relevant studies on the "16-8" fasting method on his podcast Since type 2 is the biggest focus for me, naturally it's where I focus. Parsing some of that data out it seems when people half-a#@ fasting, they get minimal results ESPECIALLY if not COMBINED with low carb high fat or keto diets - I think this is also true on the opposite side of health or fitness journeys for people - once they have achieved a good level of fitness or weight loss, the need for fasting to weight loss is diminished, and can be easily maintained doing 3 meals a day that are whole real food and sans the coca cola or other issues.
Any citations or references to what you're describing that would inform me better?
Have you tried building up fecal matter via dehydration and cheese first?Cutting weight for competition would be so much easier if I could just drop 20 lbs via an enema.
Throw in a sleeve of GMO bagels for an excellent dough plug.Have you tried building up fecal matter via dehydration and cheese first?
I've actually read quite contrary data regarding fasting vs. Caloric restriction in Dr. Jason Fung's books, the Obesity Code and the Diabetes Code. Dr. Andrew Huberman covered the relevant studies on the "16-8" fasting method on his podcast Since type 2 is the biggest focus for me, naturally it's where I focus. Parsing some of that data out it seems when people half-a#@ fasting, they get minimal results ESPECIALLY if not COMBINED with low carb high fat or keto diets - I think this is also true on the opposite side of health or fitness journeys for people - once they have achieved a good level of fitness or weight loss, the need for fasting to weight loss is diminished, and can be easily maintained doing 3 meals a day that are whole real food and sans the coca cola or other issues.
Any citations or references to what you're describing that would inform me better?
I do find it interesting that my original question about "does anyone have info about dry fasting" became quickly "sounds like a terrible idea" and "here's a bunch of info about why fasting is stupid in comparison with caloric restriction".I wouldn't put too much stock into Dr Fung's books. He is very good at cherry picking data to arrive at his conclusions.
Fasting without caloric restriction doesn't seem to make any difference in any measurable sense: Does the Energy Restriction Intermittent Fasting Diet Alleviate Metabolic Syndrome Biomarkers? A Randomized Controlled Trial - PubMed
Intermittent versus continuous energy restriction on weight loss and cardiometabolic outcomes: a systematic review and meta-analysis of randomized controlled trials
This systematic review and meta-analysis summarized the most recent evidence on the efficacy of intermittent energy restriction (IER) versus continuous energy restriction on weight-loss, body composition, blood pressure and other cardiometabolic risk ...www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
This review looks at autophagy to see if there is any difference between CR and IF, and finds that they both seem to have similar levels. This supports the idea that fasting benefits are a result of caloric restriction.
The effect of fasting or calorie restriction on autophagy induction: A review of the literature
Autophagy is a lysosomal degradation process and protective housekeeping mechanism to eliminate damaged organelles, long-lived misfolded proteins and …www.sciencedirect.com
Basically, in terms of weight loss, autophagy, and health markers, IF most likely achieves this through caloric restriction. According to the current research.
If you throw Low Carb and Keto on top of that, you still get the same result as there have been quite a few studies looking at the differences between Keto groups and non keto groups. They all pretty much find there is no measurable difference between them. Dr Kevin Hall has done a lot of these metabolic ward studies.
That said... and since these sort of conversations seem to trigger some people, IF is a great tool if it works for you. Keto is a fine tool if it works for you. But they aren't anything special and have drawbacks to be aware of (IF and LC combined increase the prevalence of eating disorders in women by A LOT, less so in men, but still enough to warrant a disclaimer).
End of the day, you need to find a strategy that works for you. No need to have FOMO about not doing some other strategy since they all, as far as the current research shows, produce benefits via caloric restriction.
Fung is not someone I give any credence to.
His ideas are frequently debunked
Speaking of Huberman, you might find his recent podcast with Dr. Chris Palmer interesting.I've actually read quite contrary data regarding fasting vs. Caloric restriction in Dr. Jason Fung's books, the Obesity Code and the Diabetes Code. Dr. Andrew Huberman covered the relevant studies on the "16-8" fasting method on his podcast Since type 2 is the biggest focus for me, naturally it's where I focus. Parsing some of that data out it seems when people half-a#@ fasting, they get minimal results ESPECIALLY if not COMBINED with low carb high fat or keto diets - I think this is also true on the opposite side of health or fitness journeys for people - once they have achieved a good level of fitness or weight loss, the need for fasting to weight loss is diminished, and can be easily maintained doing 3 meals a day that are whole real food and sans the coca cola or other issues.
Any citations or references to what you're describing that would inform me better?
Sure, I can walk you through my thought process if it helps.I do find it interesting that my original question about "does anyone have info about dry fasting" became quickly "sounds like a terrible idea" and "here's a bunch of info about why fasting is stupid in comparison with caloric restriction".
A simple non response from everyone since they had no useful info would've sufficed.
bro... you quoted quite a few links from me to actual studies that are as concrete as you get.Anything concrete that I can read? And then based on new or better information change my opinion?
My quote and reply was to watchnerd. Also your first link conclusions isn't at odds with Fungs conclusions in the book, and your second link is behind a pay wall. Have you read Fungs books?Sure, I can walk you through my thought process if it helps.
1. question was about if dry fasting is more effective than fasting. Since an answer can only be as good as the question, worthwhile to dig into each part of the question.
2. first you need to figure out how effective fasting is. Thats an easy-ish answer, lots of research on that idea.
3. Then take a look at how much more effective dry fasting is compared to fasting. Since you have roughly an idea of how effective fasting is and how its benefits work, you can then start to figure out what the added benefit of dehydration has on fasting.
Since we know that fasting benefits come from caloric restriction, then we can start trying to ask "what does dehydration add to this?".
As far as anyone can find, pretty much none aside from a video claiming the krebs cycle burns toxins when dehydration is added through some unknown mechanism with no sources cited. Although they did cite a study that found when people don't eat or drink for 5 days they lost weight (but not specifically fat mass) for some reason.
Also I hate that people are so wrapped up in everything being a snowflake that when I say stuff like "Fasting magic happens due to Caloric Restriction" they take it as "Fasting is stupid". CR works... Therefore if fasting causes CR, then fasting works...
bro... you quoted quite a few links from me to actual studies that are as concrete as you get.
Only Obesity Code.My quote and reply was to watchnerd. Also your first link conclusions isn't at odds with Fungs conclusions in the book, and your second link is behind a pay wall. Have you read Fungs books?
Have you tried building up fecal matter via dehydration and cheese first?
Please read your response again and tell me how any of what you said is useful to me. Especially for how much you post about ideas of people wanting to believe things but not backing them up, your replies are extremely stark of anything but opinions.
Anything concrete that I can read? And then based on new or better information change my opinion?
Well clearly you have never gone out for a night of heavy drinking in Wisconsin!I can't say that had ever occurred to me!
I also at one time believed Guinness was the elixir of life.I even had a moment where I was like “Guinness is my red Kryptonite man!!!” Lol