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Kettlebell AXE Training Thread

**Edited typo**

I am at roughly 6 weeks into my AXE journey and had an interesting week. I’ve been doing H2H swings 2x/wk, following the core plan that Pavel laid out. As I’ve mentioned before I haven’t pushed it very hard because my main program right now is reasonably high volume barbell C&P and the combo is pretty taxing on my posterior chain so I don’t want to hurt my back.

On Monday this week I was due a stop sign test and pretty easily went to 30 minutes with the 28kg at 4reps OTM. That wasn’t very surprising as I’ve spent the last couple weeks at 25 sets, but I decided to move to the 32kg bell for 4 reps per set on my second session of the week; and lo and behold I went to 30 minutes without hitting any stop signs! I had to dig in for the last 2-3 sets but until that point it was pretty much punching the clock.

I’ve kept it pretty easy with the AXE training so far so I didn’t overdo anything, but I was pleasantly surprised with a solid jump in weight with almost not increase in my RPE. I’m going to move up to 6 reps OTM with the 32kg next week, curious to see how that goes
 
So, there might seem to be a disconnect, that if my sets are all "Easy" why wouldn't the RPE Be lower?

At this point in the training cycle, I'm running low on hard sets but the RPE is still higher than before.

I would say my grading of when the turn of difficulty happens ( from easy to hard sets ) has a lot to do with proprioception of exertion in the legs and breath recovery.​
I would also say the RPE sensation at this point is mostly based on the heart/lungs/conditioning aspect at this point.​
Right now it seems like I'm training my conditioning a bit more, as I approach underload, rather than strength.​

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I wonder if it's okay to do twoarmswing on Axe or Qnd's off day. In S&S, Pavel said that doing twoarmswing on off day would help recovery. But I've seen Forum say it's a point of inefficiency from 4 times a week. I wonder what you guys think.
 
I don’t remember the exact passage (S&S or otherwise) but my recollection from something Pavel wrote is that off-day training, if using lighter weights and moderate sets can help promote recovery and cement muscular gains. I am currently doing AXE swings 2x/wk and Barbell Clean & Presses 3x/wk. As long as I listen to my body and back off when appropriate it’s been quite manageable.

My general impression and personal experience from the >4 days feedback is that’s detrimental when you’re going too hard every day and ineffective when you’re consistently too light. People have a hard time managing appropriate variability or hitting the sweet spot of effort in high volume programs.
 
I have built up to 4 x 1H swings OTM for 60 minutes now with a 32kg which totals 240 swings.

Start a new 2 week block next week at 6 x 1H swings OTM for 40 minutes with a 32kg which totals 240 swings. Will add 4 minutes per session (3 sessions per week) and then finish on 6 x 1H swings for 60 minutes, which will be the end of an 8 week block of doing solely AXE and some easy running twice a week.

When I start training again after a break I'll keep doing one session a week as a long (60 min/+) AXE session. Think will being doing DFW or Iron Cardio again next, not decided yet.
 
Current week:
Monday: AXE 6/10 x 20-kg bell
Tuesday: IC classic x 20 minutes x 20-kg bell
Wednesday: mace or meel swings (various weights by feel)
Thursday: this week subbed in a light Indian club session day after cortisone shot
Friday: AXE 6/10 x 20-kg bell
Saturday (tomorrow): IC press ladder...same bell

Next week AXE sessions go to 6/20 or stop sign, working to 6/30 then switch to six weeks of Q&D in place of the AXE sessions. I suppose it will temporarily not fit into this thread...
 
Finishing out my Quick and Dead 044 Cycle with a 20KG kettlebell this week (I've spent a good 14 weeks on Q&D 044 with Iron Cardio sessions (10-20 minutes duration - varying load from 16KG to 32KG on the roll of a dice). It's a good thing I re-read AXE again today, because I plan to also drill the H2H Swing before I do my first AXE Test in the New Year and determine the load (likely between 24KG to 32KG) I'll be using.

Probably how next week will look:

Drill H2H swings with my 24KG bell all next week to make sure I've got the form right (I've been doing snatches only for several weeks)
Do my last two Q&D sessions
Start the New Year right with AXE
 
wiwip said:
I wonder if it's okay to do twoarmswing on Axe or Qnd's off day. In S&S, Pavel said that doing twoarmswing on off day would help recovery. But I've seen Forum say it's a point of inefficiency from 4 times a week. I wonder what you guys think.
Click to expand...
How many days a week are you performing kb ballistics? I just finished a 6 week cycle on Axe and just did 2 days per week. But my joints needed a break. 4 days per week can make the joints achy if you aren’t used to it. When I did q&d earlier this year 044, I mostly trained it 2x/week and later rolled dice on whether to train on a day or not which led to some weeks training 1-3x per week. I never added two hand swings in for recovery because it wasn’t part of these programs. I found that a 20-40 minute walk to be better or one day a week I would do a barefoot jog in my backyard to help loosen up and aid in recovery. The jog was very light but I got a sweat going and felt really good afterwards.
 
Honestly for my Q&D cycle the only other things I did for the S&C side were LISS sessions and IC sessions (10-20 minutes duration post my Q&D sessions). I also had my Jiujitsu and Muay Thai practices to keep in mind, so I avoided two a days (keeping that to 1-2/week, 3 at most).
 
Conor said:
I don’t remember the exact passage (S&S or otherwise) but my recollection from something Pavel wrote is that off-day training, if using lighter weights and moderate sets can help promote recovery and cement muscular gains. I am currently doing AXE swings 2x/wk and Barbell Clean & Presses 3x/wk. As long as I listen to my body and back off when appropriate it’s been quite manageable.

My general impression and personal experience from the >4 days feedback is that’s detrimental when you’re going too hard every day and ineffective when you’re consistently too light. People have a hard time managing appropriate variability or hitting the sweet spot of effort in high volume programs.
Click to expand...
I’m running a similar program of AXE 2x a week and Giant 3 times a week. I’m 53. I’m also finding it very manageable.
 
Hey my Plan for tge next year is AXE three days a week. Two days high Volume (6 Reps / 30 Minutes) with 44 kg. An one day Low Volume ( 15 to 30 Sets 4 Reps with 48 kg) i want to progress til 48 Kg / 6 Reps / 40 Minutes on all three days. At the Moment my max ist 44 kg / 6 Reps / 26 Minutes. I Finish the Session with Clean and presses Low Volume or tgus .

My Question is, can i alternate my Axe Protokoll with 30 Minutes of jump rope 3 days a week, with finishing pull ups Sets ( 3 to 5 Sets)?
 
Red_and_Black said:
I have built up to 4 x 1H swings OTM for 60 minutes now with a 32kg which totals 240 swings.

Start a new 2 week block next week at 6 x 1H swings OTM for 40 minutes with a 32kg which totals 240 swings. Will add 4 minutes per session (3 sessions per week) and then finish on 6 x 1H swings for 60 minutes, which will be the end of an 8 week block of doing solely AXE and some easy running twice a week.

When I start training again after a break I'll keep doing one session a week as a long (60 min/+) AXE session. Think will being doing DFW or Iron Cardio again next, not decided yet.
Click to expand...

That first 6 swings OTM x 40 minutes was harder than the last 4 swings OTM x 60 minutes, same reps (240) in 20 minutes less. I did manage to keep the time the same (12-13 seconds for all 6 swings from pick-up to stop) and recovered OK between minutes, but was breathing deeply the first few seconds after completion whereas with 4 OTM it felt much steadier all the way through.
 
Luis T. Gonzalez said:
How many days a week are you performing kb ballistics? I just finished a 6 week cycle on Axe and just did 2 days per week. But my joints needed a break. 4 days per week can make the joints achy if you aren’t used to it. When I did q&d earlier this year 044, I mostly trained it 2x/week and later rolled dice on whether to train on a day or not which led to some weeks training 1-3x per week. I never added two hand swings in for recovery because it wasn’t part of these programs. I found that a 20-40 minute walk to be better or one day a week I would do a barefoot jog in my backyard to help loosen up and aid in recovery. The jog was very light but I got a sweat going and felt really good afterwards.
Click to expand...
I usually do 3 sessions a week with the swing/snatch. Any other training I do is usually a decent walk of 60-90 minutes. During the winter my OA in my knees really flares up so I'm going to be switching to rowing, ski erg or air dyne. These won't be LISS sessions, but they won't be CrossFit sessions either. I don't have the patience for playing with machines, however, I don't live in an area that is decent for a long bike ride either.
 
Mmabjj said:
Hey my Plan for tge next year is AXE three days a week. Two days high Volume (6 Reps / 30 Minutes) with 44 kg. An one day Low Volume ( 15 to 30 Sets 4 Reps with 48 kg) i want to progress til 48 Kg / 6 Reps / 40 Minutes on all three days. At the Moment my max ist 44 kg / 6 Reps / 26 Minutes. I Finish the Session with Clean and presses Low Volume or tgus .

My Question is, can i alternate my Axe Protokoll with 30 Minutes of jump rope 3 days a week, with finishing pull ups Sets ( 3 to 5 Sets)?
Click to expand...
I would probably do your pull ups after AXE to save your overall grip.
 
Did some sets of swings (10s) at 20KG, 24KG, and 28KG over the last few days to get a sense of where I want to start with. I'll likely start with the 24KG and go from there with my primary being the H2H swing, but using the 1 Arm Swing if I'm in a place where doing H2H swings might put a substantial dent in the floor (i.e. on my patio under an awning if it's raining outside).
 
First AXE Session:

  • Sets of 4x EMOM at 24KG - 17 sets, stopped when my technique broke down on the last set
    • AVG HR: 131 BPM
    • MAX HR: 145 BPM
  • 32KG Clean and Press Test: 5x sets/Arm, though on the left side, the last two reps were a bit of a struggle.
    • AVG HR: 135 BPM
    • MAX HR: 166 BPM
 
Got 13 sets in today, stop sign was when my feet started to slide a bit on the tail end of the last swing on the last set with my 24KG. I'm at 4x EMOM at this time, first session was earlier this week.

I also had one 'dropped kettlebell' on my eighth set and came up with a 3x strikes rule for dropped kettlebells which I'll show below:
  1. First dropped kettlebell - it happens
  2. Second dropped kettlebell - possible technique fail
  3. Third dropped kettlebell - Now a stopsign was hit.
 
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