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Bodyweight Getting big on Bodyweight

Abishai

Abishai

Level 5 Valued Member
This deserves its thread.... so here we go.
Can you use a bodyweight approach for adding mass and how big can you get?
I went from 138lbs to 165lbs at the height of 5'7 in 3 years. I ate 90gs of protein per day and didn't try especially hard to add the mass. I am sure if I emphasized mass more, I could have added it more quicker. I never really put on fat and maintained visible abs throughout.

These days I actively try to limit any additional mass but I'm sure I could add a lot more if I would want to.
I successfully replicated similar result with my younger brother (114-165 at 5'10) and many other clients and friends.

I believe people don't take bodyweight seriously as a means to add mass for these reasons:
1) It is slower than weightlifting
2) it is harder to track and add progressive overload
3) they are unaware that the reps and sets ranges for mass are very different than weightlifting thereby setting themselves up for failure

rant over.

I would love to hear people's opinions.
@bluejeff @WxHerk @mikhael @pet' ?
 
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I have puzzled over this from time to time.

Bioneer makes some good points about why convicts with little to no equipment, sub optimal sleep and diet, and stress levels, do get big.

 
Adachi said:
I have puzzled over this from time to time.

Bioneer makes some good points about why convicts with little to no equipment, sub optimal sleep and diet, and stress levels, do get big.

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Bioneer is a great channel....
Prisoners pay for or smuggle protein into prison as per Josh Bryant (Prison Strong book).
You can argue that the sleep is better then what many Americans get especially if you are in mandatory lockup for 8 hours...
His point about the KB being the missing piece for bodyweight training is spot on.
 
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@Abishai posting pictures of folks from online it has worked for is great, but isn't it pretty similar to posting pictures of models in Men's Health or Bodybuilders and saying "if you lift weights you could get these results!" ?

No one is arguing that you cannot get stronger using bodyweight.

No one is arguing that you cannot put on muscle using bodyweight.

And no one is arguing that if you get pretty lean and have a bit of muscle you will probably look good shirtless, especially if you have a pump and use good lighting.

Your experience could suggest you are, at best, an outlier - "I didn't try to put on muscle and I barely ate protein and I put on 30lbs of muscle!"

It is similar to folks saying "Herschel Walker only used calisthenics and he was in the NFL!"
 
John K said:
@Abishai posting pictures of folks from online it has worked for is great, but isn't it pretty similar to posting pictures of models in Men's Health or Bodybuilders and saying "if you lift weights you could get these results!" ?

No one is arguing that you cannot get stronger using bodyweight.

No one is arguing that you cannot put on muscle using bodyweight.

And no one is arguing that if you get pretty lean and have a bit of muscle you will probably look good shirtless, especially if you have a pump and use good lighting.

Your experience could suggest you are, at best, an outlier - "I didn't try to put on muscle and I barely ate protein and I put on 30lbs of muscle!"

It is similar to folks saying "Herschel Walker only used calisthenics and he was in the NFL!"
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Can't the same arguments be made against any program?
 
I don't think that many people try to argue against bodyweight training for mass as much as they used to, especially since the explosion in popularity of calisthenics and gymnastic strength training over the last 10 years or so.

To me, the biggest elephant in the room is whether or not jacked bodyweight-centric athletes use ONLY body weight. Most of the bigger ones don't. Many use weighted calisthenics once they get to a certain point. It is also quite hard to discern how much supplemental weight training (even in a "prehab" sense) has contributed to their size.

Back when Ido Portal was more musclular, he was doing a lot of ring work and gymnastic work, but he was also doing barbell squats and used weights for shoulder work. Gymnasts get idealized as being huge for bodyweight athletes, but....they actually use weights quite a bit. I've seen olympic gymnasts repping out dumbell curls, and using weights to progress their maltese and planche positions.

The other big issue is the typical one: leg and hinge training.

Gymnasts don't want huge legs, but if you look at them, no one is going to say they don't have muscular legs. They focus on jumping power though, not raw weight lifted. Again, I've seen videos of them using weights for legs. There was an old reddit post from a Cirque du Soleil performer regarding his training, and barbell front squats and upright rows were staples in his training.

I can try and find some links and examples when I have more time (about to head to work), so I will leave it at this for now:

Regarding bodyweight and weight training, I think people will do best using both.

In my opinion, one ought to be able to both move their own body through space (think closed kinetic chain) as well as manipulate external loads (open kinetic chain).
 
The first example of a huge calisthenics athlete that comes to my mind is Dejan Stipke. He has always looked like a bodybuilder, and he has always used weighted calisthenics, even if it is just dudes laying on his back. Does that count as "bodyweight training?" ;)

 
bluejeff said:
I don't think that many people try to argue against bodyweight training for mass as much as they used to, especially since the explosion in popularity of calisthenics and gymnastic strength training over the last 10 years or so.

To me, the biggest elephant in the room is whether or not jacked bodyweight-centric athletes use ONLY body weight. Most of the bigger ones don't. Many use weighted calisthenics once they get to a certain point. It is also quite hard to discern how much supplemental weight training (even in a "prehab" sense) has contributed to their size.
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Good point.
Matt Shifferlie (the last picture I posted) is all body weight but uses weighted variations.
Hannibal for king (far right) is pure-calisthenics (was homeless and couldn't afford a gym)
Austin Dunham (Middle picture) added upper chest and RDLS to fill in weak points but was 90% bodyweight until recently.
Hershel Walker was 100% calisthenics.

There is a valid argument that bodyweight does not effectively hit lateral delts and upper chest(for aesthetics) and Hip-hinge.
I found a way to hit lateral delts with a TRX with this




and use raised-leg 1 arm pushups for upper chest.
You can easily add KB swings into your training for the hip hinge and have the full package.
 
Maybe the meaning of "getting big" needs to be defined.

If you ask Mark Rippetoe, he would probably answer "a 230 pound guy that can squat 500 pounds and drinks a lot of milk".

If you ask Al Kavadlo he would probably answer "myself", weighing maybe 160 pounds.

@Abishai, congrats on the good progress and gaining 30 pounds of good muscle
 
Hello,

Yes it is totally possible to gain mass using bodyweight only training. Below is a template from StrongFirst for instance:
www.strongfirst.com

More Mass with Minimal Gear | StrongFirst

With training equipment running at an all-time low due to COVID-19 lockdowns, most people have access to nothing but their bodyweight and minimal equipment and are left scratching their heads with what to do besides countless fundamental exercises and “HIIT.” There are only so many dips...
www.strongfirst.com

That being said, it is harder to build mass for lower body than upper body. Legs are naturally bigger and stronger and can naturally handle way more volume. Reaching high volume of pistol squats for instance can be detrimental (imbalance regarding hamstring, so possibly imbalance around the knee).

Another approach can be using "high repetition" training, such as IronWolf or Busy Dad for example. The bulk of their routine is burpees. IW has more variety. BD is based upon 6 ct and Navy Seals. This guy shows is training on YT, has an impressive physique and great "performance" overall (I remember a video a while ago where he described transfer from bdw to other things).

From personal experience, I've got good results with this kind of routines but it came at a cost: very endurance focused, fast diminishing returns if one can not dedicate more and more time. That's where density training come in handy (such as Busy Dad for example).

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
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