Adam R Mundorf
Level 6 Valued Member
I always liked how Ido Portal says he wants bamboo legs instead of tree trunk legs. They bend and are bouncy but don't break.
Bodyweight Getting big on Bodyweight
- Thread starter Abishai
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- #bodyweight mass gain
Suxatkettlebell
Level 3 Valued Member
I mean you're right but Ido also was training Conor McGregor, who lost his third fight with Dustin Poirier due to breaking his leg...
Abishai
Level 5 Valued Member
Abishai
Level 5 Valued Member
So you think that all the people that I trained were coincidentally all high responders to calisthenics?
highly unlikely.
by that logic I can say the same for every modality.
Abishai
Level 5 Valued Member
spot on with the relative definition.
thanks!
silveraw
Level 9 Valued Member
I'm still trying to follow.
Those photos are your client's results?
Thats pretty damn impressive. I thought they were just fitfluencers.
Abishai
Level 5 Valued Member
no those were famous examples.
I can't post client pics because of their privacy but have added 25-40 lbs on quite a few of them.
Okie dokie cowpokey.
Abishai
Level 5 Valued Member
silveraw
Level 9 Valued Member
psh, thats nothing. I've added 80lbs.
Its called being poor, injured, and a $2 frozen pizza special the local grocery store was running.
Is that the before or after? I'm not saying anything about not being able to gain muscle mass through bodyweight. Everyone knows that is possible.
For me at least the question is more about packing on mass at a rate you rarely even see in non tested bodybuilding.
Abishai
Level 5 Valued Member
after.
the purpose of this thread was if bodyweight can add mass not if there are other methods that can do it faster
Here is a decent video from the JRE podcast. I think you can certainly put on some mass with bodyweight exercises. But I have a problem personally with saying I am only going to do (blank.) Can you, yes, but why would you if you can use other tools to create a more comprehensive program that can make a person better. The missing ingredient Pavel points out in the video is loading of the low back. Another thing is he points out that Body Weight exercises take more coaching. In order to have a strong and healthy low back, you pretty much need to load the body with weights. But if your jam is bodyweight only, then go for it.
Boris Bachmann
Level 8 Valued Member
I don't think Ido will ever have to worry about having tree trunk legs...
This is dumb. Don't post pics of Herschel Walker and say "LOOK YOU CAN GET HYOOGE JUST LIKE HERSCHEL WITHOUT THE WEIGHTZ!..." Come on. Lyle McDonald had a spoof article probably at least a decade ago about "Pole Vaulting For a Hot Bod" and the point is very relevant here.
silveraw
Level 9 Valued Member
Ahh I get yah.
Yeah, add calories and you can gain mass. Add resistance training and some of it might be muscle.
bluejeff
Level 7 Valued Member
I agree with this; it doens't make much sense, period, to say you're only going to do ONE modality. I highly doubt that most of the influencer types selling "one modality to do everything" have actually only done that one modality. As I was getting at earlier, when you see an athlete who is muscular, strong, has a six pack, etc...most often that is the result of years of doing more than one specific thing. It drives me nuts when I see an influencer who I KNOW has either been incredibly consistent over many years, or done more than one thing, make a video about "this shoulder exercise does it ALL!!" or whatever.
This is something that I am not sure I agree with. In the JRE clip, Pavel cites the hollow position as being something that requires a lot of coaching... As someone who taught gymnastic strength training at one point, I can say it is no more technical than any barbell or kettlebell movement. In fact, I might be inclined to say the hollow position in particular is significantly easier to coach than something like a kettlbell clean.
I am not trying to say that bodyweight training is superior in any way to other common strength/hypertrophy training modalities, but I do have to say that I don't understand the weird sort of strawmanning I sometimes see against it.
For example, I often see some variation/combination of, "the positions are too technical" or "the mobility demands are really high," or "you can only progress by adding reps." Sorry, but again, as someone who coached this for a while, I disagree.
Regarding technicality: this only really applies if you start to get intermediate-advanced, e.g. you are training anything on the rings more technical than a muscle up, or you are training any handstand skills beyond a freestanding handstand pushup. And all that only applies if you even care about doing those things. Many people can get great gains by just turning to weighted calisthenics (pushups, pullups, etc). The technicality in bodyweight training is no greater than that required for barbell lifting. It's even arguable (to me, at least) that Olympic lifting is much, much more technical. People make some things seem more technical than they really are.
Regarding mobility: this one is something of a head-scratcher to me. If something asks that you become more mobile in order to do it....that's somehow a bad thing? With all the comments I see about shoulder mobilty, this seems weird. Like, why would you not want to become more mobile, and become stronger through greater ranges of motion? People here will ask about shoulder mobility for overhead kettlebell work, squats, etc....they will do t-spine drills, hanging, etc.... but suddenly when it comes to calisthenics, it's like this weird boogyman shows up and I mostly see the lines I listed above.
If you don't want to do certain calisthenics movements, that's fine. No one is saying you have to. But these weird statements sometimes come across to me as reasons to put bodyweight training down or something.
Regarding "progression only comes by adding reps," or some variation of, "you plateau quickly":
To these people, I will simply say, "decrease your leverage." It is quite easy to make pushing and pulling significantly harder by simply changing the lever arm involved. By leaning forward in your pushup by only a handful of inches, the move can suddenly go from a 10-20 RM to a 3-5 RM. Turn your pushups into divebombers or pike pushups. Start trying to pull your hands lower towards your waist with pullups.
Not trying to throw shade here. I already stated that many of the better athletes out there use a combination of training modalities, as do I (not that I am a special athlete; I'm not). But I have to disagree with some of the notions I listed above.
I agree largely with you. Every modality takes a degree of coaching and I’m not sure body weight requires more than barbells or kb’s. I think this largely depends on the person you are training and their athletic experience. Some people just learn faster than others depending on their own awareness. The thing that struck me the most was the original question was to gaining mass. If mass is the goal, then I would think that the barbell would be the primary tool as this will certainly give the quickest results we are after. It doesn’t make sense to me to say, this person wants to gain mass so, let’s see if we can do it with push ups, jump squats, hand stand push ups etc. Why not load the bar and lift heavy? Or lift with some high reps to put some mass on? I will say it again, I like them all and maybe it’s the Jeet Kune Do mindset in me. “Adopt no way, as the way.” As soon as you marry yourself to One way, you miss all the possibilities and beauties available from being closed minded. My main staple in training has been the kettlebell for a while now. But I still include bodyweight and barbell work and dumbbell because, why not?
LukeV
Level 7 Valued Member
I used to inhabit the weights room in a police citizens youth club that also offered martial arts and gymnastics. In those days, only bodybuilders lifted weights because “weights made you slow and bulky” so the martial artists and gymnasts only did bodyweight work, jogging/sprinting and practised their sport. They were never in the weights room! Many of them had amazing physiques, muscular and lean like Tarzan, and, yes, their legs were lean too but they looked like they could run and jump all day. It was clear to me that you didn’t need weights training to look and feel strong and that approaches based on bodyweight lacked for nothing (unless you specifically wanted legs like tree-trunks). What I did notice was these guys did a lot of group fitness and it was often competitive - like push ups, chin ups, sit ups and sprints until it was last man standing. I got the sense they exercised to failure a lot, trying to beat each other. That probably made a difference
Antti
Level 10 Valued Member
I can't see why bodyweight training wouldn't be able to add mass to somebody. The exercises have muscles move the joints and experience tension.
However, I also don't get what's so great about using only bodyweight.
Second, I often find so called bodyweight training uses equipment. Loading push-ups? I suppose you could have somebody get on you and that would still be bodyweight... Handles for more range of motion for push-ups? Tree branches, pull-up bars or gymnastic rings? Weighted vests? Where does the need for equipment end? And why would we want to avoid using the equipment?
However, I also don't get what's so great about using only bodyweight.
Second, I often find so called bodyweight training uses equipment. Loading push-ups? I suppose you could have somebody get on you and that would still be bodyweight... Handles for more range of motion for push-ups? Tree branches, pull-up bars or gymnastic rings? Weighted vests? Where does the need for equipment end? And why would we want to avoid using the equipment?
Hung
Level 8 Valued Member
No clear progression in the bodyweight exercise.
Also some weird obsession with number (I did x rep in pull/dips/insert exercise name...).
Genetic/training age and diet are important too.
So...yeah, calisthenics for hypertrophy works, but unless you develop a framework so people can easy follow then there will be other easier choice
Also some weird obsession with number (I did x rep in pull/dips/insert exercise name...).
Genetic/training age and diet are important too.
So...yeah, calisthenics for hypertrophy works, but unless you develop a framework so people can easy follow then there will be other easier choice
bluejeff
Level 7 Valued Member
I agree. One thing to maybe keep in mind is that not everyone has access to a barbell, or maybe they just prefer doing body weight stuff, i.e. it’s more fun for them. That’s why I was into gymnastic strength training; I liked the idea of learning skills and getting strong and building muscle, rather than just repping out linear barbell moves. Learning to do something on the rings, or balance my body upside down and do push-ups seemed more interesting than lying on a bench and pushing a barbell up and down. That said….These days I do barbell and body weight for all the same reasons I listed above. For me they both have their place.