Just to add, thank you to everyone who chimes in as it also gives us the opportunity to learn.. There's good reason the code has being a student of strength as tenet number 1
Kettlebell 24kg C+P Form Critique
- Thread starter IMayAgainKnowChris
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@IMayAgainKnowChris, lot of good and interesting ideas here.
Best bet for you? Work with a StrongFirst Certified Instructor, one-on-one, IMO.
I will add a few words about loading the spring. I usually use the words "pull back on the bow" or "stretch the rubber band" - same idea, namely storing energy on your backswing so that you can use that energy to get the next job, moving the kettlebell, done.
Speaking for myself, with a moderate or even moderately heavy weight, I have a few options about how deep I hinge. I don't think you should be too focused on finding one particular angle, nor do I think you should focus on just a single cue or visualization. As @Mark Limbaga just said, we're all students - keep trying different things.
-S-
Best bet for you? Work with a StrongFirst Certified Instructor, one-on-one, IMO.
I will add a few words about loading the spring. I usually use the words "pull back on the bow" or "stretch the rubber band" - same idea, namely storing energy on your backswing so that you can use that energy to get the next job, moving the kettlebell, done.
Speaking for myself, with a moderate or even moderately heavy weight, I have a few options about how deep I hinge. I don't think you should be too focused on finding one particular angle, nor do I think you should focus on just a single cue or visualization. As @Mark Limbaga just said, we're all students - keep trying different things.
-S-
@IMayAgainKnowChris - you make that 24 look like a toy! Since you've already received comments from some very skilled folks, I'll just share what helped me. Rather than focusing on "pulling" the shoulder and elbow back, I focused on "pinning" the elbow to my side. If you set up for a swing, on the backswing the elbow gets right up against the ribs; now when you snap your hips forward, pin your elbow there. You'll create a short arc that gets the bell going up instead of out like in the swing, and at least for me it helped me have a hippier clean (vs. a more shoulder driven clean) with less twist.
IMayAgainKnowChris
Level 5 Valued Member
Reminds me of a tip I got to once that was basically to like perform the “clean” like at the belt buckle. If that makes sense. This seems like a very actionable tip I will try tonight for sure.
Probably one of the best cues..
Other versions I've used
"imagine you're inside a barrel and have to do your cleans/snatches and not even scratch the barrel"
barrak
Level 6 Valued Member
An excellent cue no doubt... but what if half your class counter..."What's a phone booth?"
I've stood in front of students doing cleans/snatches and asked them not to hit/scratch me, gets their attention, and mine.
@barrak , good point. For those in the class that have never been in a phone booth, have them watch the bar path of below vid.
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barrak
Level 6 Valued Member
Wow! Love the float!
I don't think he ever shrugged his shoulders!
He'll lose his tongue one day if he's not careful, though. (No one is safe from armchair criticism here.)
barrak
Level 6 Valued Member
Not even with a medieval helmet and codpiece... I'll give this cue a pass.
Stand close at a right angle, keep bell in your periphery , move if necessary. A couple reps will do. Not so bad.
IMayAgainKnowChris
Level 5 Valued Member
Figured instead of leaving it hanging I’d post my last two sets from my medium day today.
The first video I felt a lot snappier with the clean because I was doing it more like a hang clean I guess? I wasn’t focused on leaning forward at all but more “loading my hips” I guess. But it FELT a lot better although there isn’t much hinge.
2nd video I just tried to focus on the hinge and keeping my elbow pinned.
I don’t know guys. They felt a little better than my first form check post but I guess it’ll take time. <3
Any improvement? I just feel like I lose a bit of power the more I try to bend forward? Not sure what’s up w that. Much love!
The first video I felt a lot snappier with the clean because I was doing it more like a hang clean I guess? I wasn’t focused on leaning forward at all but more “loading my hips” I guess. But it FELT a lot better although there isn’t much hinge.
2nd video I just tried to focus on the hinge and keeping my elbow pinned.
I don’t know guys. They felt a little better than my first form check post but I guess it’ll take time. <3
Any improvement? I just feel like I lose a bit of power the more I try to bend forward? Not sure what’s up w that. Much love!
Well in the second video it definitely looks like you're pinning it nicely on the way up! The bell really moves fast, and you have some good presses too dude!
To me - and notice that I am *not* a SFG - it looks like you're powering it with your back and not your hips, which is why you get some of that corkscrew. If you're willing to video it cool, but regardless, try doing some swings but keeping that elbow pinned, relaxing the arm and shoulder. The kettlebell should pop up to waist height with the elbow still pinned, focusing on squeezing the glutes hard at the top. This might help use your hips more and keep a more relaxed arm. It might take a little getting used to, and you might find initially it is less powerful, but in the long run it'll provide more power.
To me - and notice that I am *not* a SFG - it looks like you're powering it with your back and not your hips, which is why you get some of that corkscrew. If you're willing to video it cool, but regardless, try doing some swings but keeping that elbow pinned, relaxing the arm and shoulder. The kettlebell should pop up to waist height with the elbow still pinned, focusing on squeezing the glutes hard at the top. This might help use your hips more and keep a more relaxed arm. It might take a little getting used to, and you might find initially it is less powerful, but in the long run it'll provide more power.
Press groove has improved..
I'd like to see the following vids from you if possible
1arm swing
Double cleans (if you have a pair)
Then we will dial in your drop from the rack
I'd like to see the following vids from you if possible
1arm swing
Double cleans (if you have a pair)
Then we will dial in your drop from the rack
Nice improvements!
I notice you are much more squared up.
Here's a "Clean Fixer for Twisty Hips" from Senior SFG Martine Kerr.
The other thing you might try is in the backswing of your clean, allow your chest to face down towards the ground a bit more. Seems like you are trying hard to stay upright, and may be missing some of the depth of the hinge as a result.
Keep up the good work! I'd like to see those videos too that @Mark Limbaga mentioned.
I notice you are much more squared up.
Here's a "Clean Fixer for Twisty Hips" from Senior SFG Martine Kerr.
The other thing you might try is in the backswing of your clean, allow your chest to face down towards the ground a bit more. Seems like you are trying hard to stay upright, and may be missing some of the depth of the hinge as a result.
Keep up the good work! I'd like to see those videos too that @Mark Limbaga mentioned.
IMayAgainKnowChris
Level 5 Valued Member
Any opinion on the first vid va the 2nd? The first one where I’m keeping myself more upright felt a lot “cleaner”. Lol. But like I said it felt like more of a hang clean style vs the hike pass, which I know is StrongFirst style.
@Mark Limbaga will get a video of the swings and doubles.
So much appreciation!!!
Interesting... yeah I see the difference and you're right, the second one is more StrongFirst style, though I can see some value in the hang clean style too. I don't have an opinion on which would give you a better training effect. But I actually think you could actually lean forward and get more out of loading the hinge if you give it more time, more backswing, more leaning forward, even more so than you are in the second video.
Tarzan
Level 6 Valued Member
I had to re-work my clean phase of the C&P after a back injury. I took on a more upright position, mostly so I could avoid any spinal flexion as I fatigued in the last few reps. I noticed a bit of a twist creeping in as a result. Playing around with the width of my stance & foot angles eliminated the twist for me.
It felt a bit weaker at first & I had to compensate with a slightly deeper squat but it eliminated the twist. It doesn't feel as snappy as you loose a bit of the pre-load tension but now it's been drilled into a habit it feels just as strong.
It felt a bit weaker at first & I had to compensate with a slightly deeper squat but it eliminated the twist. It doesn't feel as snappy as you loose a bit of the pre-load tension but now it's been drilled into a habit it feels just as strong.
barrak
Level 6 Valued Member
If I remember correctly, heavy double cleans subconsciously cued me into keeping tight clean casts to minimize the pull on my lower back. Don't take my word for it. Notice the wrist action (and resulting bell trajectory) in this SFG video compared to yours.
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