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Barbell 5x5 intensity for maintenance

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WarrenEllis

WarrenEllis

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Hey guys. I apologize if this has been posted elsewhere, but I couldn’t find it if so.

I’ll be implementing quite a bit of cardio for the next 8 weeks for an event. Most of my efforts usually are in the barbell/kettlebell. Deadlift is +2x body weight, recently set pr’s in bench, overhead press, and zercher squat.

Over the next 8 weeks, I intend to do cardio in the morning, lift in the afternoon. I’d like to 5x5 these 4 lifts, one day deadlift and overhead press, the other squat and bench, twice a week. I’d alternate lifts every set with two minutes between (Bench, squat, bench. Squat... and so on x5) so it’s roughly 5 minutes between sets per lift.

My intention here is to maintain strength while I focus on cardio and possibly lose a few lbs, and not to progress at this time. My question is, at what intensity should I keep the weight? I’m aiming for 80% 1rm but it seems a little harder than it should be. Perhaps it’s due to staggering the exercises. Perhaps I should lower the intensity. Perhaps I should just perform each lift once a week.

Does anyone have any suggestions how to approach this, for maintenance and not progression, while I focus on cardio and perhaps minor weight loss?
 
If it isn't hard, you aren't doing anything. Backing off because it's "Harder than it should be" is not trying. If you can breeze through a 5x5, it's not heavy enough.
 
This sounds like an ideal place for the Easier Easy Strength plan by Dan John from Easy Strength. If you haven't read it yet, I would recommend you check it out. It can be a bit hard to read due to the format of switching between Pavel and Dan, but it has a lot of good information in it.
 
Sounds like your focus for the next two months ( which will fly by ) is CV, so take your 5's to 60-70 % and throw in some 1's and 3's at 80-85.
Minor weight loss is diet related. From a recent post on carb cycling, 2 weeks at 30% intake less than maintenance, alt. with 2 weeks at maintenance. This could effect your motor for your cardio related event.
 
Last time I did a progression for 5x5 I maxed out around 80%. Maybe a little bit higher. I did straight sets with two or three minute rest periods. So 80% should be a hard workout. Perhaps drop to 75%, that's 5 rep sets at your 10 rep max which is a nice spot to be for strength training generally, as per, say, Plan Strong
 
But will 60-70% more or less maintain my 1rm? I understand there will be some loss which I can build back later, but I’d like to do my best to minimize this.

I also understand the need for nutrition considerations for weight loss, and am acting accordingly. It’s much easier to not to eat calories than attempt to work them off.
 
WarrenEllis said:
But will 60-70% more or less maintain my 1rm? I understand there will be some loss which I can build back later, but I’d like to do my best to minimize this.

I also understand the need for nutrition considerations for weight loss, and am acting accordingly. It’s much easier to not to eat calories than attempt to work them off.
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Doubtful, and will depend on the intensity of your CV training. But it could stay pretty close.
 
I have done this a few times, and failed. If you are going to run a lot I doubt that you can keep squat volume up. Deadlift might be different, I don'tknow. For me squat has always been number one and deadlift third.

I'm with Antti and LukeV in that 5x5x80% is basicly max feat. If you can go clearly above that your max is more than you think. I don't recommend that kind of volume.

Of course it depends on what your cardio training goal is? What kind of training and how much?

My experience with running and high volume squat is that thighs get really sore. I'd go for 2x3x roughly 85% and try to keep that up for the whole 8 weeks. Maybe all 4 moves in the same workout every 4 or 5 days.
 
Specifically, I am currently running a mile a morning, 5 days a week. Some mornings I’ll do sprint drills instead.

Wednesday, in the afternoon, instead of barbell lifts, I’m doing kb swings, running, or some combo of the two, up to 300 kb swings.

Saturday mornings is my longer run. Last week I did 5 miles. I intend to add a mile each Saturday until I hit 8 and then maintain that.
 
70% has been shown to build strength in some people. You will not build muscle (Hypertrophy) while in a deficit, but that isn't the same as building strength. You could actually increase your 1RM if you push hard enough, but that is tough to manage in a deficit. Most importantly i would say - don't worry too much about it. Seriously. Do what you need to do, what happens happens, move on from there. Surprises can be nice.
 
WarrenEllis said:
But will 60-70% more or less maintain my 1rm?
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There is no such thing as maintaining a true 1RM. If you know what yours is, vary the weights between 65 and 85% 1RM. I wouldn’t do 5x5 but would vary the volume as well.

There is a good 5x5 article by Pavel on the website if someone wants to post the link. It uses mostly lighter weights.

-S-
 
WarrenEllis said:
Hey guys. I apologize if this has been posted elsewhere, but I couldn’t find it if so.

I’ll be implementing quite a bit of cardio for the next 8 weeks for an event. Most of my efforts usually are in the barbell/kettlebell. Deadlift is +2x body weight, recently set pr’s in bench, overhead press, and zercher squat.

Over the next 8 weeks, I intend to do cardio in the morning, lift in the afternoon. I’d like to 5x5 these 4 lifts, one day deadlift and overhead press, the other squat and bench, twice a week. I’d alternate lifts every set with two minutes between (Bench, squat, bench. Squat... and so on x5) so it’s roughly 5 minutes between sets per lift.

My intention here is to maintain strength while I focus on cardio and possibly lose a few lbs, and not to progress at this time. My question is, at what intensity should I keep the weight? I’m aiming for 80% 1rm but it seems a little harder than it should be. Perhaps it’s due to staggering the exercises. Perhaps I should lower the intensity. Perhaps I should just perform each lift once a week.

Does anyone have any suggestions how to approach this, for maintenance and not progression, while I focus on cardio and perhaps minor weight loss?
Click to expand...

I would ditch sets across and switch to ramping sets.
 
WarrenEllis said:
Hey guys. I apologize if this has been posted elsewhere, but I couldn’t find it if so.

I’ll be implementing quite a bit of cardio for the next 8 weeks for an event. Most of my efforts usually are in the barbell/kettlebell. Deadlift is +2x body weight, recently set pr’s in bench, overhead press, and zercher squat.

Over the next 8 weeks, I intend to do cardio in the morning, lift in the afternoon. I’d like to 5x5 these 4 lifts, one day deadlift and overhead press, the other squat and bench, twice a week. I’d alternate lifts every set with two minutes between (Bench, squat, bench. Squat... and so on x5) so it’s roughly 5 minutes between sets per lift.

My intention here is to maintain strength while I focus on cardio and possibly lose a few lbs, and not to progress at this time. My question is, at what intensity should I keep the weight? I’m aiming for 80% 1rm but it seems a little harder than it should be. Perhaps it’s due to staggering the exercises. Perhaps I should lower the intensity. Perhaps I should just perform each lift once a week.

Does anyone have any suggestions how to approach this, for maintenance and not progression, while I focus on cardio and perhaps minor weight loss?
Click to expand...
If your only strength goal for the next week is to maintain your current 1rm, while doing a lot of cardio, then 5x5 is not the most suitable.

5x5 @80% would be very hard to recover from(given that the cardio will be intense enough), and 5x5 @70-75% may not be enough to maintain your 1rm.

I would increase the intensity and decrease the volume. Something like this:

Week 1: 3x3(80%)
Week 2: 4x2(85%)
Week 3: 1x3(80%), 1x2(85%), 2x1(90%)
Week 4: 3x3(70%)
Week 5: 3x3(80%)
Week 6: 4x2(85%)
Week 7: 1x3(80%), 1x2(85%), 2x1(90%)

This way, I believe you will be able to put your efforts on cardio training, and not affect your 1rm .
 
WarrenEllis said:
Specifically, I am currently running a mile a morning, 5 days a week. Some mornings I’ll do sprint drills instead.

Wednesday, in the afternoon, instead of barbell lifts, I’m doing kb swings, running, or some combo of the two, up to 300 kb swings.

Saturday mornings is my longer run. Last week I did 5 miles. I intend to add a mile each Saturday until I hit 8 and then maintain that.
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Ok. With that you might get away without major defects. Just focus more on intensity (and vary it) than on volume. E.g. 3x5 instead of 5x5 with 80%.

I usually targeted roughly 15 miles a week when I started planned running and got upto 25 miles during first 2-3 months. And after that it was basicly running only with more miles.

And when I said deadlift third... I have trained long periods with no deadlift at all. Would I have done better if I had deadlifted instead of squatting? Maybe.
 
Your 1 RM will change regardless. You are doing a lot of changes in your training and lifestyle and it will affect it. You should focus on what your goal is and do some strength training on the side to help you with your goal.
You can always start a new strength cycle afterwards. If you focus too much on your barbell PR right now you will lose focus on what the main goal is.
Just my opinion.
 
Sounds to me like good old fashioned step loading would be ideal here.

This way you keep at a set weight until you can dominate the weight for the given rep range. Then you move up in weight.

This is ideal for athletes who have a high recovery demand from other forms of training. So they require a less aggressive form of strength training.
 
I appreciate all of the responses. Lots to consider here.

I will get through today and reconsider my approach for next week forward.
 
Today. I alternated deadlifts and bench with 2 minute breaks between. I did 3x3 at 80% 1rm intensity. I finished with towel hang leg lifts.

This felt much better. I’ll either adapt a template similar to spartan-agoge’s example or play around with 3x3 at 80% and 5x5 at 70%.

It was relatively intense yet not defeating. I feel if I can maintain this my strength shouldn’t suffer much.

Thanks again for the suggestions, everyone.

Also. I do own a copy of Easy Strength, but I’ve yet to read it.
 
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