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All Terrain Conditioning A+A for long distance trail running?

Georgiaoutdoors

Level 5 Valued Member
Would love people’s input and ideas for using A+A as part of strength and conditioning training for long distance trail running specifically. What exercises would you use/suggest to specifically target gains for trail running? Also, what exercises would suggest in A+A as part of cross training to maintain general physical fitness/strength and balance out typical trail running training?
 
Not long ago there was a newsletter with A+A protocol using split squat jumps, and few months back was one with Pistol sqt. These could be good for developing endurance in legs. Those can be used with low running volume. Other A+A protocols LCCJ, snatches will work to even with running. Also there is a sequence of protocols based on QnD 033>044>060. If you look around here you'll get the point.
 
Would love people’s input and ideas for using A+A as part of strength and conditioning training for long distance trail running specifically. What exercises would you use/suggest to specifically target gains for trail running? Also, what exercises would suggest in A+A as part of cross training to maintain general physical fitness/strength and balance out typical trail running training?
I like two hand swings and (single) snatches for A&A work for running. If you’re asking more broadly (outside A&A) I think squats, single leg squats, single leg deadlifts, clean and press, and pull-ups or rope climbing all are good additions. The lower body stuff is good for strengthening your legs, but the single leg stuff in particular is great for developing single leg balance and/or stronger ankles and knees. The upper boys stuff is big bang for your buck exercises.
 
Not long ago there was a newsletter with A+A protocol using split squat jumps, and few months back was one with Pistol sqt. These could be good for developing endurance in legs. Those can be used with low running volume. Other A+A protocols LCCJ, snatches will work to even with running. Also there is a sequence of protocols based on QnD 033>044>060. If you look around here you'll get the point.
Can I get some clarification on long cycle clean and jerk? Does that entail returning KB to the ground after each clean and jerk?
 
Can I get some clarification on long cycle clean and jerk? Does that entail returning KB to the ground after each clean and jerk?
The first clean of a set is from the ground. Each subsequent clean starts and ends in the rack.
 
Would love people’s input and ideas for using A+A as part of strength and conditioning training for long distance trail running specifically. What exercises would you use/suggest to specifically target gains for trail running? Also, what exercises would suggest in A+A as part of cross training to maintain general physical fitness/strength and balance out typical trail running training?
What distances you talking about?
But…in any event… I probably wouldn’t. I would do S&S and run.
 
I trained in A+A fashion for bigger part of first half of this year, recently reintroduced hill sprinting to my regime. There was a trail running competition in my little, lost and forgotten village, for the first time. You can attend next year if you do not mind a trip to Slovakia (y)

I am in decent shape, but man, I was defeated like nothing by people in their 50s and 60s, both men and women. I was seriously considering tearing my starting number down from my T-shirt and hiding in forests. But I am afraid of bears too, so I finished it, 55th from 80 :D
The lesson is that trail running is very specific stuff, and A+A can get you only so far. So I'd recommend to do trail running for trail running, and something like S&S for "balancing" your main discipline.

You can also spend 8-12 weeks every year when you will be more strength focused, and put your trail running training to maintenance mode.
 
A+A is great for general fitness. I do something similar, and I am training for a 50 mile race this fall.

A+A hill sprints or step-ups are great. I also like C&J or snatches for A+A.

I am 56 and I train for durability and FINISHING, though. If I was training to win, I would do something different.
 
A+A is great for general fitness. I do something similar, and I am training for a 50 mile race this fall.

A+A hill sprints or step-ups are great. I also like C&J or snatches for A+A.

I am 56 and I train for durability and FINISHING, though. If I was training to win, I would do something different.
That’s similar to what I was thinking. Doing a long stretch of general strength training, A+A, and easy LISS for active recovery days. Then begin to easy up on some of the strength training to add in A+A running sprints. Then when getting closer to a specific race switching to more specific run training with limited strength training for maintenance and preventing imbalances.
 
I trail run totally recreationally (I view it pretty much as going for a hike but (somewhat) faster). I can see a use for a+a work for trail running because in some terrain there are steep but very short inclines. You can power up these in a few seconds using alactic energy, and thus avoid breaking rhythm and losing momentum. This is especially true when a long easy downhill is punctuated by these short steep inclines. Plenty of aerobic energy around to keep on running downhill AND replenish the alactic system for the next hill. The same applies for having the tiny burst of power you need to leap over an obstacle rather than stop and clamber over it.

I have found that doing hill sprints that replicate the work/rest timing of ‘the quick and the dead‘ works really well for this in a running specific way.
 
I trail run totally recreationally (I view it pretty much as going for a hike but (somewhat) faster). I can see a use for a+a work for trail running because in some terrain there are steep but very short inclines. You can power up these in a few seconds using alactic energy, and thus avoid breaking rhythm and losing momentum. This is especially true when a long easy downhill is punctuated by these short steep inclines. Plenty of aerobic energy around to keep on running downhill AND replenish the alactic system for the next hill. The same applies for having the tiny burst of power you need to leap over an obstacle rather than stop and clamber over it.

I have found that doing hill sprints that replicate the work/rest timing of ‘the quick and the dead‘ works really well for this in a running specific way.
Have you done Q&D hill sprints on actual hills or on a treadmill. My understanding is that you want the experience of actual acceleration vs using the handle bars to drop onto an already moving treadmill.
 
in some terrain there are steep but very short inclines. You can power up these in a few seconds using alactic energy, and thus avoid breaking rhythm and losing momentum. This is especially true when a long easy downhill is punctuated by these short steep inclines. Plenty of aerobic energy around to keep on running downhill AND replenish the alactic system for the next hill. The same applies for having the tiny burst of power you need to leap over an obstacle rather than stop and clamber over it.
I had a similar effect on my bike riding when I was doing A+A swings. Short hard efforts could be alactic, with the recovery from that and the rest of the ride mostly aerobic, minimizing glycolytic type efforts. Seemed to make the ride easier overall, with the same average speed.

Swings have fallen out of favor for A+A, but I feel like they were great during the times that I used them. Mine were all heavy 32 kg 1H swings in repeats of 5 per side, using protocols designed by Al Ciampa.
 
32 kg 1H swings in repeats of 5 per side, using protocols designed by Al Ciampa.
Heavy swings for short sets are excellent.
I have an affinity for 2handed swings with weights I can't handle 1 handed swings on yet.

5x5 with the 48kg bell is good medicine for me.

And 90s timing 5 reps with the 40kg bell is a great interval for alactic practice for me.

Finding the balance of a , short and deep enough cut with plenty of rest for the next repeat is a great way to build capacity.

Most notably for me the months I spent on iron cardio a la @Brett Jones , is something I will be revisiting again for many moons. I'll just be less impatient after working up to clean and jerk press squat with the 40kg bell.

Whether or not the snatch or swing or clean sits better in the ATP CP pocket for you is worth investigation. For myself with single bells. 2 handed swings for short sets beyond my 1 hand swing practice is a great zone to be in.
 
Heavy swings for short sets are excellent.
I have an affinity for 2handed swings with weights I can't handle 1 handed swings on yet.

5x5 with the 48kg bell is good medicine for me.

And 90s timing 5 reps with the 40kg bell is a great interval for alactic practice for me.

Finding the balance of a , short and deep enough cut with plenty of rest for the next repeat is a great way to build capacity.

Most notably for me the months I spent on iron cardio a la @Brett Jones , is something I will be revisiting again for many moons. I'll just be less impatient after working up to clean and jerk press squat with the 40kg bell.

Whether or not the snatch or swing or clean sits better in the ATP CP pocket for you is worth investigation. For myself with single bells. 2 handed swings for short sets beyond my 1 hand swing practice is a great zone to be in.

iron cardio a la @Brett Jones
Where is the best best to learn about iron cardio?
 
Have you done Q&D hill sprints on actual hills or on a treadmill. My understanding is that you want the experience of actual acceleration vs using the handle bars to drop onto an already moving treadmill.
Real hill. I am lucky to live very close to a perfect slope. The five minute walk to get there is just a nice warm up. I have basically never used a treadmill (ran on one for a couple of minutes out of curiosity about 30years ago). I find it hard to imagine anything you could do on a treadmill coming close to the power you can generate in an actual hill sprint, but would happily be corrected by anybody who knows anything about treadmills.

I take a few steps to get a up to jogging pace, then run at maximum effort for 24 paces (8 seconds for me). The first time I tried I did 30 paces (10 seconds), but found that I could not recover enough to maintain full power within the given timeframes (used the timing for the snatch only version, as sprints are the only exercise being used).
 
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I had a similar effect on my bike riding when I was doing A+A swings. Short hard efforts could be alactic, with the recovery from that and the rest of the ride mostly aerobic, minimizing glycolytic type efforts. Seemed to make the ride easier overall, with the same average speed.

Swings have fallen out of favor for A+A, but I feel like they were great during the times that I used them. Mine were all heavy 32 kg 1H swings in repeats of 5 per side, using protocols designed by Al Ciampa.
I found that hill sprints had a huge effect on my ability to power up small hills on a bike (more than swings did).
 
I had a similar effect on my bike riding when I was doing A+A swings. Short hard efforts could be alactic, with the recovery from that and the rest of the ride mostly aerobic, minimizing glycolytic type efforts. Seemed to make the ride easier overall, with the same average speed.

Swings have fallen out of favor for A+A, but I feel like they were great during the times that I used them. Mine were all heavy 32 kg 1H swings in repeats of 5 per side, using protocols designed by Al Ciampa.
Why have Swings fallen out of favor for A+A protocols? They seem to work rather well, as you attest and at least one Go-Ruck competitor has stated similar results.
 
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