Kettlebell Alactic + Aerobic continued...
- Thread starter Harald Motz
- Start date
Harald Motz
Level 8 Valued Member
Haha, I don't believe in programming, when I program for myself: that's freestyle anyway....you know when you are your own student and teacher, there's a chance of one being an idiot.
When I do a program, a protocol provided by people I trust, I strongly believe in it and expect some results.
Currently with my double C&J training I am a guinea pig for my man @Kenneth Bolyard who combines PlanStrong with StrongEndurance in his programming. @Derek Toshner works with Ken putting up stuff for All-Terrain Conditioning. Last year I did 3 cycles of his StepUp Protocol.
In my schedule are 'interesting' sessions where I don't know how I come out of it. Started week 4 yesterday...end of the week is a big one - I might post about it or not haha...Reach out directly to Ken if you want to 'step up' your conditioning.
Harald Motz
Level 8 Valued Member
Finished my first 4 week block of @Kenneth Bolyard experimental double loncycle protocol. Last session was a biggie, I did not expect it went that well...but Ken did haha. This session probably is a great example of a PlanStrong combination of high intensity combined with high volume plus kind of density as it was timed:
Lately I love the combination of work with immediate brisk recovery walk: another way of Alactic & Aerobic.
Now I might just be introduced for another block
Lately I love the combination of work with immediate brisk recovery walk: another way of Alactic & Aerobic.
Now I might just be introduced for another block
Harald Motz
Level 8 Valued Member
another big one done today in @Kenneth Bolyard Clean & Jerk lab.
walking for recovery works like a charm - for this kind of work I'll never 'go back'. For the latest sessions I got into 'starting by feel':
I have the hr watch fixed to my belt. I don't watch the watch, just walk and watch my breathing before a repeat - so far my timeless sessions look pretty clockwork like. A heck of some Clean & Jerks on the horizon for the next weeks, next year...
walking for recovery works like a charm - for this kind of work I'll never 'go back'. For the latest sessions I got into 'starting by feel':
I have the hr watch fixed to my belt. I don't watch the watch, just walk and watch my breathing before a repeat - so far my timeless sessions look pretty clockwork like. A heck of some Clean & Jerks on the horizon for the next weeks, next year...
Halfakneecap
Level 6 Valued Member
Unbelievable! Im definitely going to try A+A, strength and conditioning all in one. 37 sets of 5 x dbl 32kg jerks, that is awesome Harald.
Training for Life
Level 6 Valued Member
I am wondering about doing steady state aerobic work bundled with A+A sessions. Is there some interference? Is it better to do the LISS work before or after A+A?
Adachi
Level 6 Valued Member
I have been finding that one helps the other.
My added cardio has been decreasing the sensation of difficulty in my 24kg snatch practice.
It would be good training advice to stagger them appropriately.
In my case I alternate days of the week.
If trained on the same day - Fast First is good advice.
But whatever @Harald Motz is doing, I'm interested.
For myself,
MWF - Snatch (10/10 @ 3min.)
TTh - Cardio ( 30 minutes )
Faster reps and shorter sets are the results.
the added cardio augments the power production and speeds recovery overall.
I believe that Harald opined some time ago - that directly training cardio capacity provides a shock absorber to work capacity that isn't available otherwise.
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Harald Motz
Level 8 Valued Member
This A+A is the stuff. The above training session is not 'pure' (there is no pure energy system anyways...) alactic, as 5 C&J take me 25 sec - therefore the time tested 5 heavy crisp snatches ( towards 10 sec) - but the recovery walk is perfect aerobic recovery.
----
Today I got a row of my dreams: sub 40 min, staying within green and hr next to no rising towards the end. To iterate: 'pure' aerobic training is one part of the A+A equation and the complement.
To the C2 rowers, @watchnerd comes to mind. With regards to damper setting. When I got my C2 a few years back - I never got into the weeds of drag factor, spm, damper, technique...it just quickly felt best to pull @8,5 exactly between 8 and 9. Additionally, it just felt best to pull at a spm @30 (when going for a fast time I get around 35).
Last year on some suggestion on IG I went down with the damper to 7 and pulled just with that. The last 3 rows I am back to my default setting 8, and today at 8,5. The difference in lower hr dynamics is very obvious and I feel that I can accelerate each stroke just better. I am 1,78m /5,8ft.
My question: at exactly the same stroke rate, does a higher damper yields more meter per stroke? My gut feeling is: yes, it does.
Harald Motz
Level 8 Valued Member
I've posted a few sessions of C&J with added rowing afterwards in this thread. With the rowing I just want to stay more or less in the blue zone. Staying at the same low power output on the C2 it is 15-20 min, when the hr really goes down nicely (it is said that it takes this long for the aerobic system to be fully online - from the C&J there is lactate present and I feel that it is around that 15-20 min that a good amount is cleared then: on the hr it is pretty obvious - hail the hr monitor.) Easy effort - and I mean easy...has no bad effects - if it even has good effects? My gut answer is yes.
But again - time tested and recommended:
one day A+A ballistics, the other day classic endurance (what I posted in above posts: yesterday A+A ballistics, today a 10k row).
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watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
This gets a bit tricky, as it depends on what you're trying to emulate.
For people who also row on the water using racing hulls (like me), damper settings of 7+ are way too high to simulate the drag feel of a sleek and narrow racing hull. You'll have to pull harder, and your strokes/minute will be too low compared to what you should be doing in a 2k race (35-40+ strokes/minute in a hull).
The usual metaphor is that higher damper settings simulate an old-fashioned high drag rowboat, which isn't what you want if you're a water racer in scull or sweep hull.
Okay, but what about people who don't get on the water?
There are competitive erg-only users and I think it's informative to look at way they do, as they have the freedom to pick whatever setting gives them the most advantage.
People who participate in the C2 World Rowing Indoor Championships (WRICH) tend to use damper settings in the 3-5 range.
Competitive Crossfitters, on the other hand, tend to use much higher drag factors. 7+ is not unusual among Crossfit Games athletes.
The difference is that each are playing to their strengths.
WRICH winners are usually taller (ex-crew team), have better rowing technique and rowing-specific energy adaptations, but aren't as strong as Crossfitters.
Crossfitters are usually shorter, have worse technique, but are stronger/more powerful than WRICH winners.
I'm only 5'11" / 180 cm (a little taller than @Harald Motz 's 173 cm), which is a great height for my weightlifting sport, but is pretty short for a rower. That means I have to pull harder to match the total energy production at a given strokes/minute of the taller rowers who have longer strokes.
If I only cared about my erg scores, I'd crank the damper way up like a Crossfit athlete because my strengths (shorter, stronger/more powerful) are closer to theirs. But because I also train on the water, I don't do that, because it messes up my on the water technique.
I want the damper to feel as close to a racing hull water friction as possible.
Instead, what I do to make up for my shortness is use a more aggressive hatchet blade (Braca Sport Fusion).
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Harald Motz
Level 8 Valued Member
Yesterday's big session (heavy, timed & volume):
I was surprised, that my hr could stabilize on the second half of the schedule without rising.
@watchnerd thanks for your detailed answer.
I was surprised, that my hr could stabilize on the second half of the schedule without rising.
@watchnerd thanks for your detailed answer.
malleus
Level 5 Valued Member
What about double c&p + walk? What RM do you use for your double c&j?
Halfakneecap
Level 6 Valued Member
Harald Motz
Level 8 Valued Member
Last week was highest volume session so far, 463 Lifts on double C&J. One week left to finish the second 4 week block. The next one is around the corner by @Kenneth Bolyard, to finish the year with a solid three months of double lc.
two days later:
For the timeless sessions going by feel works pretty well and I seem to be getting in a good groove with my hr starting point. I like going by feel with breathing too, nasal, nasal/mouth, mouth...different breathing rhythm.
two days later:
For the timeless sessions going by feel works pretty well and I seem to be getting in a good groove with my hr starting point. I like going by feel with breathing too, nasal, nasal/mouth, mouth...different breathing rhythm.
Recovery walk would work for everyting, best thing would be walking outside. For my RM...I don't know on the double lc but I guess 2 x44 would go up one or two times.
Bauer
Level 7 Valued Member
Here we go again.
1) First session of CJCJ (x26)
2) Last session of CJCJ (x30)
Notice the decreased time spent in the "green zone".
3) First session of CJCJC (x30)
Interestingly, my repeats did not take longer than during the CJCJ phase. But my HR did go up quite a bit. Could talk quite comfortably with my wife during my 15 seconds of rest.
If I only look at my average HR from minute 15 to 25, the numbers are a bit easier to compare:
1) First time CJCJ: 140
2) Last time CJCJ: 131
3) First time CJCJC: 143
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Harald Motz
Level 8 Valued Member
Many good things going on, cool update.
Harald Motz
Level 8 Valued Member
tomorrow begins my second week of the third 4 week block from @Kenneth Bolyard. In this block he has me doing single arm snatches and double clean and jerk. Love it so far.
December is Be Well And Strong fitness test time. It comes right out of the mind of @Al Ciampa the yoda of A+A and goes as follows:
December is Be Well And Strong fitness test time. It comes right out of the mind of @Al Ciampa the yoda of A+A and goes as follows:
That's a pretty cool annual fitness test. Are there strength standards to go with it as part of the fitness test? I did a 10 mile run in a hair under 2 hrs two weeks so I would've failed too... I got a year to prep now!
Harald Motz
Level 8 Valued Member
No formulated strength standards. These three are the main dish of the test, and the combination of them is pretty awesome.That's a pretty cool annual fitness test. Are there strength standards to go with it as part of the fitness test? I did a 10 mile run in a hair under 2 hrs two weeks so I would've failed too... I got a year to prep now!
You could even make a tactical strength endurance challenge out of it...the snatchtest is allready part of it .