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Kettlebell Are kettlebell snatches dangerous for the wrist and forearm bones?

watchnerd said:
Here is what Chat GPT came up with when I told it to write a haiku about kettlebells and a broken arm:

Kettlebell slipped free,
Arm now broken, pain intense,
Lessons learned too late.
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I asked it for a limerick. It's better than mine. And this is why the robots will take over.

There once was a gym-goer named Nell,
Who loved to lift kettlebells quite well,
With a swing and a press,
She toned her muscles, no less,
And now her strength story she'll tell.
 
MikeTheBear said:
Well now I'm hooked on Chat GPT. Thanks alot, not like I don't have other stuff that wastes my time. :p

It's actually kind of cool.
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You can have a lot of fun asking it to design training programs.

After a few AI training iterations, I got it to write a decent 8 week Olympic weightlifting program (at least as good as the average online one) with progressive overload and undulating periodization.

I haven't tried to see how it does with KB programming yet.
 
Mark Limbaga said:
Appreciate the kind words .

Which video are you referring to?
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You have submitted a video of yours w double kettlebells recently in the forum. Showing a workout of yours. I remember the cleans from that video … if I remember correctly, but I could n’t find it or remember in which thread it was. The bells looked quite heavy relative to BW.
 
I would be more likely to say the opposite assuming that there are no serious form problems that result in excessive contact.

It is just like musclebuilding. Repeated stresses breaks it down to build it up assuming there is no tearing or other acute injury. Bones need stimulation as well. This is why jumping rope and jumping movements should be in any routine.

Muay Thai results in bone hardening of the shins. I have definitely experienced this. Painful at first and then fine.

I am not suggesting snatching with poor form can have positive results only that stressors on the bone in moderation are likely to result in positive adaptations like building muscle.

The snatch just is a difficult movement. The most difficult one for me for sure.
 
MikeTheBear said:
Well now I'm hooked on Chat GPT. Thanks alot, not like I don't have other stuff that wastes my time. :p

It's actually kind of cool.
Click to expand...

A sonnet in Elizabethan English:

Amidst the clang and clatter of the gym,
The kettlebells doth beckon and allure,
And many a fitness seeker doth begin
To lift them high, with strength and skill so pure.

But lo, a warning to all those who try,
For danger lurks within this iron sphere,
A slip, a fall, a misstep may belie
And bring an end to all that strength so dear.

A broken arm, the price that some may pay,
For lack of care or caution in their quest,
And in their pain, they rue the fateful day
That brought them to this sorry, sorry jest.

So heed the warning and take care, my friend,
Lest kettlebells doth bring you to an end.
 
I recall Pavel once being asked if kettlebells were dangerous.

His reply was, "Yes, they can kill you. So be careful."

When I got my first KBs from DragonDoor's first production run over 20 years ago, the first thing I did was try to snatch. Instruction was much less refined at that time, and it was pretty much trial and error. I bruised up my forearms pretty severely at first, but eventually stumbled upon ways to eliminate the impact, learned to replicate them consistently, and then refined them from there. Even with all the technique instruction and teaching progressions that are available today, I'd still expect some bruising along the learning curve.

But with good technique, there shouldn't really be any impact at all, and nothing that would lead to acute or cumulative injury. I've been snatching regularly for the past couple of decades and my forearms are just fine. They haven't "toughened up" or gotten "used to it" because there's nothing to toughen up against or get used to. It's just not a problem.

joemac said:
I have seen different youtube videos arguing for different way of learning it. My StrongFirst coach has me practicing it by trying the stabbing motion with a 10KG bell at the 9-oclock, 10, 11, and 12 positions, one after the other, and then repeated in 3 sets in a row.
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Yes, there are lots of teaching progressions and drills, all of which I'm sure work for some people some of the time. But the drill described above is one I don't like at all, because it reinforces the wrong bell path for the snatch or clean. You don't want the arm extended and the bell swinging out in a big arc as in a swing. You want to keep the elbow in and a more vertical bell path, closer to the body.

A widely arcing bell path makes a soft catch much harder. It also makes the catch point much less consistent. It makes it more likely you will leave it short and catch the bell out in front of you, or that you will overshoot it and catch the bell while it is still moving backward, pulling your arm behind your head. As much as possible, you want to the bell to float straight up, right to the catch point.
 
Ege said:
You have submitted a video of yours w double kettlebells recently in the forum. Showing a workout of yours. I remember the cleans from that video … if I remember correctly, but I could n’t find it or remember in which thread it was. The bells looked quite heavy relative to BW.
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I think that was the different types of iron cardio vid?

I was using 28s in that vid (I weigh anywhere from 65-67kg on average)
 
Mark Limbaga said:
I think that was the different types of iron cardio vid?

I was using 28s in that vid (I weigh anywhere from 65-67kg on average)
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Yes I think so. The cleans on that video looked so “easy”.

There are some great coaches who are built like a tank and they have great form, and there are other great coaches that have Bruce Lee look, and have great form.

Physique of a coach does not matter and determined by genetics, however I like to watch form videos from both different types of physiques. For example I would classify the strong first standards video, is shot by a gentleman who is built like a tank. And his form is perfect and hence great educational video and inspirational. And sometimes observing a coach that looks more like Bruce Lee is sth that I enjoy and find value as an inspiration to show what is doable if you are not build like a tank. Again physique of a coach does not matter at all for me but I guess we all live in this “visual” world. Hope this makes sense and hope I am not saying anything politically in correct or impolite by mistake. And please also don’t think I am sexiest. I receive my best advices from Anna, it is just sometimes more inspirational to observe someone who looks more like yourself. Not that I look like Bruce Lee :) but I don’t look like a tank at all :) My chances to look like my Bruce Lee version is higher than my version of a tank.
 
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joemac said:
Hi.

My long run goal is to achieve the SFG1 kettlebell certification. I am now practicing the snatch movement, which is the most difficult.

I can do the basic movement, but the kettlebell hits my wrist/forearm each time, so I am learning now to perfect the movement.

I understand that the movement is a subtle one such that your hand stabs the sky above and slides the kettlebell into place along your wrist and forearm just as your hand hits the 12 oclock position, instead of banging the wrist and forearm.

I have seen different youtube videos arguing for different way of learning it. My StrongFirst coach has me practicing it by trying the stabbing motion with a 10KG bell at the 9-oclock, 10, 11, and 12 positions, one after the other, and then repeated in 3 sets in a row. At 12-oclock he says the bell was correctly sliding along my wrist/forearm instead of banging them, and that I should continue to practice the movement to perfection without even thinking of raising the weight. I'm fine with that.

But I am very nervous. Assuming I will one day complete the SFG1 certification with 100 snatches at 24KG in 5 minutes, that will require thousands of snatches before then. And that will imply thousands of continued snatches in the years afterward.

How do people manage to make it through years of snatches without eventual bone degeneration or arthritis in the wrist/forearms, which sounds horrible? It was explained to me that in practice if I continue with snatches that I may experience some loss of nerve feeling and/or to develop calluses in the wrists/forearm. I'm find with THAT, but not to bone degeneration or arthritis.

I can tell you right now I feel some "tension" or "stiffness" in my wrist/forearm after practicing snatches, even after 24/48 hours. But its not pain and I can't tell if its "good" or "bad" feeling. It could be a portent of dangerous things to come, or just a new feeling coming from performing a new physical movement.

I recall in an interview with Joe Rogan, Steve Maxwell mentioned that he no longer does kettlebell snatches because he saw saw it break so many arms. But other experts seem fine with it.

What are your thoughts? Thank you.

Ilya
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Dangerous ? Nope. And you do not have to do 1000's of snatches to maintain your snatch test.
 
I like using high rep KB snatches with 1 or 2 bell sizes down for your test weight as prehab/rehab/eye-opener/ wake the body up/ get everything moving /light day training/get something in/ in 30-40 minutes day.
 
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watchnerd said:
But if my arm bones are so weak a snatch would break them, I'd expect all sorts of trauma to have occurred way before that.
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I can see a stress fracture developing over time if you were impacting the forearm, but yeah, your elbows and shoulders would also be taking a beating.

I don't know if the OP dropped out of the conversation, but I hope he's taking notes. If you're still here, post up some videos. People could give more targeted instruction to your specific issues w. a video. And, look up some technique videos on YouTube - there are a ton of instructional videos already and any tips we could give are probably covered.
 
Boris Bachmann said:
I can see a stress fracture developing over time if you were impacting the forearm, but yeah, your elbows and shoulders would also be taking a beating.

I don't know if the OP dropped out of the conversation, but I hope he's taking notes. If you're still here, post up some videos. People could give more targeted instruction to your specific issues w. a video. And, look up some technique videos on YouTube - there are a ton of instructional videos already and any tips we could give are probably covered.
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It could have the opposite effect, like the shins of a Muay Thai boxer.
 
IMO Steve Maxwell says a lot of good stuff, but offsets it with so much BS that he isn't worth listening to anymore. Kinda like Weck, but with more astrology and lying about other people's injuries.
If you go by his recent claims about "KB related injuries", those people who "broke their arms snatching" probably did kettlebell snatches and then fell on some ice or crashed a bike when they broke their arm.

That said, if snatches hurt, you are doing them wrong (obviously).
 
Steve W. said:
A widely arcing bell path makes a soft catch much harder. It also makes the catch point much less consistent. It makes it more likely you will leave it short and catch the bell out in front of you, or that you will overshoot it and catch the bell while it is still moving backward, pulling your arm behind your head. As much as possible, you want to the bell to float straight up, right to the catch point.
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Isn’t this a sport snatch? Maybe you’re trying to catch it similar to hardstyle, but a sport snatch is way easier both on the catch and the swing. Hardstyles selling point is literally the increased tension. GS practitioners are doing hundreds of snatches per set with the goal being efficiency. If it was harder to catch, they would be going hardstyle snatches.



Look how soft and consistent that catch is with a widely arcing snatch.
 
Hrungnir said:
Isn’t this a sport snatch? Look how soft and consistent that catch is with a widely arcing snatch.
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No, I am not describing a sport snatch.

The bell path does not determine GS/"sport" style or hard style. The most essential defining difference between the styles is the straight hip hinge action in hard style and the pendulum hip action in GS. In hard style, the downswing is all flexion: hips, knees, ankles (dorsiflexion). The upswing is all extension: hips, knees, ankles (plantarflexion).

In the GS pendulum, the knees straighten and hips raise at the end of the downswing, and then the knees rebend on the upswing. This rebending is considered a fault in hard style.

There are many other typical differences, but the type of hinge is the most essential.

I would not call the bell path in the video widely arcing. On the drop, he pulls his elbow in very early, and on the upswing he also has the elbow pulling in right after he finishes his hip extension. He also keeps his knees soft and sits back a little as the bell comes up, which keeps the bell path more vertical, even if it is a little further away from his body (because his body is leaning back instead of being straight up and down). He is not standing up straight and letting the bell swing out with a fully extended arm.

Of course, there is individual variation in how close the body a lifter keeps the bell. But I would never teach someone to snatch like "a swing that ends up overhead." More like a clean that ends up overhead. Here's a previous thread where this was discussed: Kettlebell - The kettlebell snatch is a CLEAN that ends up overhead

I also don't see how the catch in GS style is any "easier" than in hard style. There shouldn't be any impact on the forearm in either case, which as the issue the OP was asking about.
 
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