Kettlebell avoiding quad mass during KB swings
- Thread starter Abishai
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Pavel.Kosenkov
Level 5 Valued Member
Well, on top of the previous post - it's pretty hard to achieve hypertrophy with ballistics. Otherwise everyone would be jacked.
More to that, I hardly have any quads from squatting for a couple of years.
More to that, I hardly have any quads from squatting for a couple of years.
metaldrummer
Level 6 Valued Member
Probably doesn't want to be called thunder thighs.
Smau6785
Level 2 Valued Member
I'd love to be called Thunder <anything>! Even Thunder Farts (especially)
metaldrummer
Level 6 Valued Member
Do too many squats and you'll get thunder a#@. Eating too much protein will also give you that in a different way tho.
Adachi
Level 7 Valued Member
I humbly submit, for your consideration, Glycolytic Power repeats for hypertrophy via swings.
Conclusion
Here is my finalized recommendation.
Swings and explosive Pushups ( or other quick lifts )
10 minutes between repeats of each exercise. overall, one set every 5 minutes.
8-12 weeks.
2 days per week, a heavy day and a light day.
Proposed Hypertrophy Cycle
Week | Light | Heavy |
|---|---|---|
1 | 15/2 | 15/2 |
2 | 15/2 | 15/3 |
3 | 15/2 | 15/4 |
4 | 15/2 | 15/5 |
5 | 15/2 | 15/6 |
6 | 20/2 | 20/2 |
7 | 20/2 | 20/3 |
8 | 20/2 | 20/4 |
Notes:
- Repeat week 8 for 4 weeks or more.
- Substitute 15/2 if you are feeling down.
- Upgrade your heavy day to 20/5 if you are feeling powerful.
- Introduce a heavier bell +4~8kg on a light day, to get a taste of the higher intensity.
- After 12 or more weeks consider starting again with a heavier bell altogether. +4~8kg
- Move on to other training when you are ready.
Many years ago when I first started doing A+A swings, I noticed something that would greatly affect my heart rate.
That is, the amount and duration of muscle contraction (tight quads, specifically) at the top of the swing in the standing plank.
When you do swings, once you arrive in the standing plank, you can actually sort of relax there while the kettlebell floats. Or, you can stay tight for that second or so. You can actually stay REALLY tight, if you try. Which do you do? Are your kneecaps pulled up while the kettlebell is floating? Neither way is right is wrong, but I suspect that over hundreds, thousands, and tens of thousands of reps, it makes a difference. I saw it make a difference in my heart rate. I don't know how you might research or measure it, but I would surmise it would probably make a difference in the hypertrophy stimulus.
Add: Swing video, tight quads
That is, the amount and duration of muscle contraction (tight quads, specifically) at the top of the swing in the standing plank.
When you do swings, once you arrive in the standing plank, you can actually sort of relax there while the kettlebell floats. Or, you can stay tight for that second or so. You can actually stay REALLY tight, if you try. Which do you do? Are your kneecaps pulled up while the kettlebell is floating? Neither way is right is wrong, but I suspect that over hundreds, thousands, and tens of thousands of reps, it makes a difference. I saw it make a difference in my heart rate. I don't know how you might research or measure it, but I would surmise it would probably make a difference in the hypertrophy stimulus.
Add: Swing video, tight quads
Nate
Level 6 Valued Member
I love the idea but am skeptical there'd be quad mass. I'm thinly built with "soccer legs" that are muscular but still thin. I can swing the Beast (~2/3 body weight) for over 20 snappy reps, previously worked up to double bodyweight squat & in Dan John's Mass Made Simple got to over BW squat for a single set of 50 reps. Still thin quads. Its not my main goal so I'm not going to sell the farm to get there, I'm just saying it'd be a nice side effect of swings that I haven't seen.
Alan Mackey
Level 7 Valued Member
A swing should be a dynamic RDL, basically.
bluejeff
Level 7 Valued Member
Back to this, after re-reading through the thread: you can't really not work the quads at all, as your knees will bend to some degree. That said, I think it might be possible that someone is not using certain muscle groups well enough, or otherwise focusing on contracting some groups more than others. I still have my doubts that it really is the swing making your quads grow, but if for some reason you are using your quads too much during your swings, I suppose it could be a contributing factor.
As @Antti pointed out:
+1
A squat has the hips travel mostly vertically, which means the knees have to bend a lot more. A hinge has the hips travel more horizontally, and the knees bend less (@Anna C 's slow-mo video is great to see this). Obviously the degree to which you must bend your knees is going to vary depending on body proportions.
You wouldn't expect a conventional deadlift to be a "quad exercise," so neither should the swing.
@Abishai , I might suggest re-examining your hinge if you feel your quads working a lot in your swing.
If you would like, try these drills to see if you are compensating for a hinge with excessive knee movement. The idea with these is not to move a lot of weight, but to get the hips moving better. Think of them as warmup or mobility drills. They can help with learning to time knee and hip extension better by preventing the knee from moving in place of the hip. If these don't jive with you, then I am sure other members and coaches have lots of other things to try.
Abishai
Level 5 Valued Member
i am short and wear suits.
silveraw
Level 9 Valued Member
It ain't going to be a squat effect and I wouldn't use it to address quads being a weak point... But you can adjust the swing to be more quad dominate.
Here is the latest SF article addressing it.
Spreading the Load | StrongFirst
StrongFirst is built upon universal strength principles that are applied to the three modalities we teach: kettlebell, barbell, and bodyweight. Although our focus is on these specific modalities, our principles can be applied to any training tool. StrongFirst principles translate complicated...
www.strongfirst.com
Cyrus-II
Level 5 Valued Member
I have a similar problem. I can't sit in most chairs because they are "too deep" and I round my back. I'm 66" / 167cm tall, but my "wingspan" is about 69" / 176cm. And when I sit with people like in a restauraunt or something the 6ft tall friends are similar height or even shorter sitting next to me.
I say all that because I learned I had to adjust my swing. I worked with a SFG in person and he started having me sit a little deeper and back in the backswing. I had low back issues in my lumbar. I wasn't exactly "tippy-bird", according to him, but he said that he thought that was contributing to some of the strain. I've also herniated a couple discs many years ago back squatting. Since doing that far less low back issues, but I can definitely feel it work my quads more. So, keep that in mind if you try to adjust your swing. I think us "short femur" guys are stuck with thicker thighs.
So, aside from goblet squats with my 32KG (or sometimes lighter) and the occasional set of DFSQ with my 32 and 24 I never squat, yet still have "thunder" thighs. For the longest time before I was thirty getting pants was just obnoxious. Back when I was a kid and did more gymnastics work I had 25'ish inch thighs and a 29 inch waist. Not sure what my thighs measure now but they have thinned some and the waist is more like 33 inches. LOL
bluejeff
Level 7 Valued Member
Huh, that’s something I hadn’t thought of! It makes sense though. People with longer limbs generally appear to have smaller muscles, just because of proportions. Every shorter and stronger person I’ve met looks more muscular, even if they are comparably strong to someone significantly taller, if that makes sense.
@Nate are you on the taller or lankier side…? Don’t know if you said…now I am curious
Abishai
Level 5 Valued Member
I am 5'7 170 approx. 10% bf and I often get told that I look at least 200lbs.
Calithstenics also tends to give a stockier figure because of large lats and minimal shoulder emphasis as opposed to weightlifting.
Abishai
Level 5 Valued Member
buying pants for me is hell and jackets are paradise.
Part of the problem is that my thighs develop more than my tiny calves....
I think we can help you more if we see your swing. Video?
Abishai
Level 5 Valued Member
this is the first time i videoed my swing and as i look at it I realize that I am probably about to make an utter fool of myself due to my mobility restrictions and general lack of athletic ability...
they are not very large but they are out of proportion to my legs.....not very asthetic looking