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Bone density in 73 year old powerlifter with 450 pound squat who started at 55

guardian7

Level 6 Valued Member
I came across this about a 73 lifter which I found fascinating.

In short, a 73 year old had a bone density Z score of 5. A score of 2 would put him in the top 99 percent. But the most interesting point is that he started at age 55.

Did Lifting Damage His Bones?

Any exercise would help but there does seem to be something special about very heavy loads in forcing the body to adapt. Learning to deadlift and starting double KB work with the Giant in my 40s had a big effect on my on how I thought about strength. I did not go through a bodybuilding phase in my youth.

Declining bone density is a critical health problem in the elderly, power movements and heavy loads (for that individual) should be retained as much as is feasible.
 
The bones constantly remodel ie at a microscopic level they tear down, modify and rebuild. A big part of that remodelling relates to meeting the demands imposed by loading (force). So activities with higher force like running, jumping, lifting weights and so on will help stimulate that remodelling. Activities like swimmng, treadmills especial with padded shoes and so on have a substantially reduced effect on bone. Of course, the muscles, lungs, heart etc are worked but most people don't think about the force\load component.
edit: remodeling can increase or decrease the strength of bone. Those are inactive have bones adapting to the inactivity (reduced force loading).
 
Declining bone density is a critical health problem in the elderly,
The Elderly

The majority of elderly individuals have a multitude of health issues, such as decline in bone density, muscle wasting, becoming pre-diabetic, ect. These health issues are essentially something many of them chose.

It is a slow process that take place over years, not over night.

They chose not to do any exercise which maintain and/or increases bone density/bone mass.

They chose not to consume enough protein per meal/day, which over they years leads to muscle loss. Not consuming enough protein starves the muscles; muscle wasting occurs slowly for years.

Diabetes will be "between 1 in 5 and 1 in 3 adults in 2050" (Projection of the year 2050 burden of diabetes in the US adult population: dynamic modeling of incidence, mortality, and prediabetes prevalence - Population Health Metrics)

Diabetes is a gateway disease to cancer, heart attacks, strokes, kidney failure, dimentia, alzheimers, etc.

In regard to Alzheimers, it is now being referred to as Type 3 Diabetes.

To reiterate, these health issues are something many chose due to not having some type of exercise program, consuming enough protein to maintain or increase muscle mass, and a diet that promotes and leads to diabetes.

Cudos To My Sister

It took my sister 16 years but she finally succeeded in going from pre-diabetic to being diabetic, having osterprosis (decreasing bone mass), sarcopenia (muscle loss) and having some other associated health issues.

Back in 2008 she was diagnosed as pre-diabetic. This year (2023) she was diagnosed as being Type II The irony is the when they informed her, she told them she wasn't.

Now she is on multiple diabetic medications.

Her new objective is now consume as little protein as she can and see how much muscle mass she can lose and perform no weight bearing exercise and see how much bone mass she can lose.

I have no empathy or sympathy for her or others who chose this life style of health issues. .

They own it.
 
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Activities like swimmng, treadmills especial with padded shoes and so on have a substantially reduced effect on bone.
Weight Bearing Exercise

As you know, weight bearing exercise maintain and/or increases bone mass.

Non-Weight Bearing Exercises

Swimming (as you mentioned) and Bike Exercise are non-weight bearing.

Treadmill

Running on a Treadmill with padded shoes or an Orthopedic Belt with some cushioning is weight bearing. It provides substantially more than enough impact from each foot fall to maintain and/or increase bone density.

Walking and Running Eccentric Impact Force

1) Walking produces an Eccentric Impact Force of around 150% of an individual's body weight.

Thus, a 160 lb person would experience around 240 lbs of Eccentric Impact Force with each foot fall.

In walking a mile, if an individual's stride length was around 3 ft, that would mean about 586 foot fall would occur. (1760 ft in mile/divided by 3 ft).

That would be 70,320 lbs of Eccentric Impact with each foot strike (586 foot falls with both feet in a mile/divided by 2).

2) Running produces an Eccentric Impact Force of around 300-500% of an individual's body weight.

Thus, a 160 lb person would experience around 480 lbs of Eccentric Impact Force with each foot fall.

In Jogging a mile, if an individual stride length was around 3 ft, the would mean about 586 foot fall would occur. (1760 ft in mile/divided by 3 ft).

That would be a 136,320 lbs of Eccentric Impact with each foot strike (586 foot falls with both feet in a mile/divided by 2).

The surfaces of what you walk or run on plays a role in the amount of Eccentric Impact Force. There is greater Eccentric Impact Force with on Concrete vs Grass or a Treadmill.

While padded shoes or an Orthedic Belt will decrease the Eccentric Imparct Force.

Let's say padded shoes or an Orthepeidic decreased the impart 50%, which is unlikely.

That would mean an individual walking a mile would encounter 35,160 lbs (50% of 70,320) of Eccentric Force with each Foot Fall.

An individual jogging a mile would encounter 60,160 lbs (50% of 136,320) of Eccentric Force with each Foot Fall.

Both walking or jogging on a Treadmill is still a provides a great deal of Eccentric Impact, more than enough to increase bone density.
 
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I came across this about a 73 lifter which I found fascinating.

In short, a 73 year old had a bone density Z score of 5. A score of 2 would put him in the top 99 percent. But the most interesting point is that he started at age 55.

Did Lifting Damage His Bones?

Any exercise would help but there does seem to be something special about very heavy loads in forcing the body to adapt. Learning to deadlift and starting double KB work with the Giant in my 40s had a big effect on my on how I thought about strength. I did not go through a bodybuilding phase in my youth.

Declining bone density is a critical health problem in the elderly, power movements and heavy loads (for that individual) should be retained as much as is feasible.

I have my own story here, impressive enough I think, without being quite as "over the top" as the one in the post above. (5.2?? 5 standard deviations?? Seems a bit much. But Z-score probably exaggerates the difference more than his T-score would.)

I had a DEXA scan for bone mineral density in September this year. As I understand it, T score is compared to a healthy young adult, and Z score is compared to people your own age.

My results:
Left Femur Neck: 1.104 gm/cm2, T: 0.5, Z: 1.2
Left Total Hip: 1.123 gm/cm2, T: 0.9, Z: 1.2
L2-L4 vertebral bodies: 1.403 gm/cm2, T:1.5, Z: 1.8
Left Radius 33%: .879 gm/cm2, T: 0.0, Z: 0.6

So by the conversion to percentile charts, this puts me at 96th percentile for bone mineral density in the lumbar spine as compared with others my age/gender, and 93rd percentile when compared with younger people. Pretty awesome! Especially int he lumbar spine.

I wondered, is this good genetics? My sister and mother had also recently had theirs tested. Results reported a little differently, but I think are still comparable. Their scores are good, but more in the "normal - good" range.
Sister's: lumbar spine: 1.111 g/cm2, T: -0.6
Mother's: L-spine total L1, L2, L3, and L4 AP lumbar spine is 0.994 g/cm2, T: -0.5, Z: 1.7

Since my mother and sister both exercise but do very little heavy lifting, I give the credit to my strength training. However, in the interest of full disclosure, I'm also on HRT estrogen, where they are not. We are all post-menopause. I am almost 56 yrs old, my sister is 58, and mother 78. So the HRT may also have some positive effect. Also, I take creatine supplement, and I a few studies have seen an improvement from that as well.

I have had some correspondence with a researcher who has looked at masters weightlifters compared with runners. They published a paper with their findings: Bone Mineral Density and Muscle Mass in Masters Olympic Weightlifters and Runners; Kayleigh R. Erickson, Gregory J. Grosicki, Mara Mercado, and Bryan L. Riemann. Their findings are aligned with my own experience. From the paper, "While there was no significant difference between exercise groups for the femur T scores (p = .098), the OWL participants had significantly higher lumbar (p = .008), radius (p < .001), and total body (p = .008) T scores, as well as significantly greater lean body mass (p = .021)." In the conclusion, "In summary, midlife incorporation of an explosive, power-focused resistance training program (Olympic weightlifting) appears to provide substantial benefits for musculoskeletal health."

I am glad the message is getting out there. Lifting is good for bone health!
 
Another prevalent factor that impacts bone density is alchohol use.

“...Long-term alcohol consumption can interfere with bone growth and remodeling, resulting in decreased bone density and increased risk of fracture. Those effects may be exerted directly or indirectly through the many cell types, hormones, and growth factors that regulate bone metabolism.”

 
Her new objective is now consume as little protein as she can and see how much muscle mass she can lose and perform no weight bearing exercise and see how much bone mass she can lose.
I have no empathy or sympathy for her or others who chose this life style of health issues. .
They own it.
The "problem" w. choice and free will is that once a pattern is established it can be really really hard to break it longer term. Yes, of course I understand that you can just "choose" to change, but I think a lot of us can empathize with the fact that exercising the choice to change again and again and again until it becomes a new habit or pattern can be a herculean task for some who probably have other stressors.
 
Are the “Big 6” Kettlebell exercises sufficient to either maintain or develop bone density as we age or is greater weights or higher impact required?
Great question. I doubt there's any data. But as I understand it, it's not so much "impact" as "muscle pulling on bone". So anything that requires the muscles to contract with enough force should do it. My guess would be if you're doing the "Big 6" kettlebell exercises with sufficient weight -- say, equivalent to Simple standard, or SFG I standard -- then I would expect that to be sufficient to maintain or develop bone density. If only I could get my sister to be a research subject on this... ;)
 
Are the “Big 6” Kettlebell exercises sufficient to either maintain or develop bone density as we age or is greater weights or higher impact required?
I have bumped in to sources that claim handstands are good for wrist, shoulder and arm bone density. I don’t know how credible those sources are but if they are correct, some can deduct some positive conclusions.
 
The "problem" w. choice and free will is that once a pattern is established it can be really really hard to break it longer term.
It's A Choice

Regardless of how you define it, it is a choice.

Either an individual is motivated to make a change to make a change or live with it consequences.

An Indecision is A Decision

Individual who make no decision is a decision to live whatever it is.

They disregard the long term consequences.

My sister is a prime example.
 
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The bones constantly remodel ie at a microscopic level they tear down, modify and rebuild. A big part of that remodelling relates to meeting the demands imposed by loading (force). So activities with higher force like running, jumping, lifting weights and so on will help stimulate that remodelling. Activities like swimmng, treadmills especial with padded shoes and so on have a substantially reduced effect on bone. Of course, the muscles, lungs, heart etc are worked but most people don't think about the force\load component.
edit: remodeling can increase or decrease the strength of bone. Those are inactive have bones adapting to the inactivity (reduced force loading).

Yes, the value of things like jumping rope, jumping etc. seem underrated even if you don't go all out for heavy loads.
 
Another prevalent factor that impacts bone density is alchohol use.

“...Long-term alcohol consumption can interfere with bone growth and remodeling, resulting in decreased bone density and increased risk of fracture. Those effects may be exerted directly or indirectly through the many cell types, hormones, and growth factors that regulate bone metabolism.”


It seems like the effect of even moderate alcohol is much worse than thought these days.
 
I see. But I think what the thread starter means to say is that the lifter in question has a z-score of +5, or five standard deviation above the average 60 year old male. That would be the equivalent of 175 IQ.

It is not just that point but that he STARTED at 55 according to the video. This is not a lifelong powerlifter. Of course, we don't have full information on his previous exercise history. Five standard deviations is good regardless of when he started. As we know, only a few months of dedicated training can start to show results. The only problem is that the comparison is compared to his age group but still something to think about.
 
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