Bone density in 73 year old powerlifter with 450 pound squat who started at 55

[guardian7]

The Elderly

The majority of elderly individuals have a multitude of health issues, such as decline in bone density, muscle wasting, becoming pre-diabetic, ect. These health issues are essentially something many of them chose.

It is a slow process that take place over years, not over night.

They chose not to do any exercise which maintain and/or increases bone density/bone mass.

They chose not to consume enough protein per meal/day, which over they years leads to muscle loss. Not consuming enough protein starves the muscles; muscle wasting occurs slowly for years.

Diabetes will be "between 1 in 5 and 1 in 3 adults in 2050" (Projection of the year 2050 burden of diabetes in the US adult population: dynamic modeling of incidence, mortality, and prediabetes prevalence - Population Health Metrics)

Diabetes is a gateway disease to cancer, heart attacks, strokes, kidney failure, dimentia, alzheimers, etc.

In regard to Alzheimers, it is now being referred to as Type 3 Diabetes.

To reiterate, these health issues are something many chose due to not having some type of exercise program, consuming enough protein to maintain or increase muscle mass, and a diet that promotes and leads to diabetes.

Cudos To My Sister

It took my sister 16 years but she finally succeeded in going from pre-diabetic to being diabetic, having osterprosis (decreasing bone mass), sarcopenia (muscle loss) and having some other associated health issues.

Back in 2008 she was diagnosed as pre-diabetic. This year (2023) she was diagnosed as being Type II The irony is the when they informed her, she told them she wasn't.

Now she is on multiple diabetic medications.

Her new objective is now consume as little protein as she can and see how much muscle mass she can lose and perform no weight bearing exercise and see how much bone mass she can lose.

I have no empathy or sympathy for her or others who chose this life style of health issues. .

They own it

I have my own story here, impressive enough I think, without being quite as "over the top" as the one in the post above. (5.2?? 5 standard deviations?? Seems a bit much. But Z-score probably exaggerates the difference more than his T-score would.)

I had a DEXA scan for bone mineral density in September this year. As I understand it, T score is compared to a healthy young adult, and Z score is compared to people your own age.

My results:
Left Femur Neck: 1.104 gm/cm2, T: 0.5, Z: 1.2
Left Total Hip: 1.123 gm/cm2, T: 0.9, Z: 1.2
L2-L4 vertebral bodies: 1.403 gm/cm2, T:1.5, Z: 1.8
Left Radius 33%: .879 gm/cm2, T: 0.0, Z: 0.6

So by the conversion to percentile charts, this puts me at 96th percentile for bone mineral density in the lumbar spine as compared with others my age/gender, and 93rd percentile when compared with younger people. Pretty awesome! Especially int he lumbar spine.

I wondered, is this good genetics? My sister and mother had also recently had theirs tested. Results reported a little differently, but I think are still comparable. Their scores are good, but more in the "normal - good" range.
Sister's: lumbar spine: 1.111 g/cm2, T: -0.6
Mother's: L-spine total L1, L2, L3, and L4 AP lumbar spine is 0.994 g/cm2, T: -0.5, Z: 1.7

Since my mother and sister both exercise but do very little heavy lifting, I give the credit to my strength training. However, in the interest of full disclosure, I'm also on HRT estrogen, where they are not. We are all post-menopause. I am almost 56 yrs old, my sister is 58, and mother 78. So the HRT may also have some positive effect. Also, I take creatine supplement, and I a few studies have seen an improvement from that as well.

I have had some correspondence with a researcher who has looked at masters weightlifters compared with runners. They published a paper with their findings: Bone Mineral Density and Muscle Mass in Masters Olympic Weightlifters and Runners; Kayleigh R. Erickson, Gregory J. Grosicki, Mara Mercado, and Bryan L. Riemann. Their findings are aligned with my own experience. From the paper, "While there was no significant difference between exercise groups for the femur T scores (p = .098), the OWL participants had significantly higher lumbar (p = .008), radius (p < .001), and total body (p = .008) T scores, as well as significantly greater lean body mass (p = .021)." In the conclusion, "In summary, midlife incorporation of an explosive, power-focused resistance training program (Olympic weightlifting) appears to provide substantial benefits for musculoskeletal health."

I am glad the message is getting out there. Lifting is good for bone health!

There might be something "special" about Olympic weightlifting in terms of both power AND heavy load. The forces on the body just from heavy cleans, for example. I ran the double KB Giant program a few times and although my weight is modest, I certainly felt the whole body effects. I think cleaning every rep for the press is a great idea. Armor building as Dan John calls it.

 

[Ian CL]

Another prevalent factor that impacts bone density is alchohol use.

“...Long-term alcohol consumption can interfere with bone growth and remodeling, resulting in decreased bone density and increased risk of fracture. Those effects may be exerted directly or indirectly through the many cell types, hormones, and growth factors that regulate bone metabolism.”

Alcohol’s Harmful Effects on Bone

Long-term alcohol consumption can interfere with bone growth and replacement of bone tissue (i.e., remodeling), resulting in decreased bone density and increased risk of fracture. These effects may be exerted directly or indirectly through the many cell ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Funny enough.. here is Rudy (guy from the original video with the high bone density) drinking whiskey after pulling 524 for a double on his 74th birthday. Also wearing a whiskey and deadlifts shirt.

Kabuki Strength ® on Instagram: "The Wise Man Deadlifts…can we get an amen?! This year @rudykadlub planned on pulling 524 pounds for his annual birthday PR - and he did - but then he doubled it because the Kabuki team peer pressured him into it! If y

975 likes, 16 comments - kabukistrength on April 29, 2023: "The Wise Man Deadlifts…can we get an amen?! This year @rudykadlub planned on pulling 524 pounds..."

www.instagram.com

 

[Halfakneecap]

Another prevalent factor that impacts bone density is alchohol use.

“...Long-term alcohol consumption can interfere with bone growth and remodeling, resulting in decreased bone density and increased risk of fracture. Those effects may be exerted directly or indirectly through the many cell types, hormones, and growth factors that regulate bone metabolism.”

Alcohol’s Harmful Effects on Bone

Long-term alcohol consumption can interfere with bone growth and replacement of bone tissue (i.e., remodeling), resulting in decreased bone density and increased risk of fracture. These effects may be exerted directly or indirectly through the many cell ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I read through that. Basically, heavy chronic drinking is bad, but by the foot notes, the people in this study were seriously heavy chronic drinkers.

 

[Halfakneecap]

At that level of chronic heavy drinking, bone density would be just one of a long list of health risks.

 

[JR47]

It seems like the effect of even moderate alcohol is much worse than thought these days.

Agreed.

 

[JR47]

I read through that. Basically, heavy chronic drinking is bad, but by the foot notes, the people in this study were seriously heavy chronic drinkers.

View attachment 23241

I merely wanted to point out the correlation. There are many other studies on the negative effects of alchohol that run the gamut. PubMed is rife with them and popular science (people like Andrew Huberman et al) is catching up to the fact that, like smoking, alchohol consumption may be more of a problem than people think.

But YMMV of course. There are always outliers.

The speed of your defence is interesting tho. I'm guessing you're a drinker?

 

[Ege]

Alcoholic beverages industry is a huge one with its very successful PR machines.

One can easily find many researches on public domain that shows the surprising negative effects of Alcohol consumption which is indeed lower than socially accepted amounts.

I am a binge drinker(this is just the acceptance of definition of a binge drinker, I am one of the people that drink much less than average among my friends), who did not like the outcome of this study.

Latent deleterious effects of binge drinking over a short period of time revealed only by electrophysiological measures

Episodic excessive alcohol consumption (i.e., binge drinking) is now considered to be a major public health problem, but whereas short-and long-term harmful consequences of this behaviour are clearly established at medical, social and cognitive levels, ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Sth that impacts your brain in such a negative way will sure impact everything related to your brain including strength skills.

 

[Halfakneecap]

I merely wanted to point out the correlation. There are many other studies on the negative effects of alchohol that run the gamut. PubMed is rife with them and popular science (people like Andrew Huberman et al) is catching up to the fact that, like smoking, alchohol consumption may be more of a problem than people think.

But YMMV of course. There are always outliers.

The speed of your defence is interesting tho. I'm guessing you're a drinker?

I do like a beer or two on the weekend yes.

I usually at least briefly read studies when they’re quoted. As you can see, you’d have to be drinking heavily and often to have a significant effect on bones. The dose makes the poison.

I’m certainly not trying to imply there’s no issues with drinking alcohol though.

 

[WhatWouldHulkDo]

So, how long until I can buy some piece of wearable technology that will continuously measure my bone density, and allow me to start bio-hacking my skeleton?

Many years ago my wife and I went to the "Body Worlds" exhibit at the museum - creepy, but interesting. I remember seeing one particular cadaver who's spine looked like it was twice as thick as all the others, and thinking to myself "that dude lifted heavy stuff."

 

[Adachi]

So, how long until I can buy some piece of wearable technology that will continuously measure my bone density, and allow me to start bio-hacking my skeleton?

Many years ago my wife and I went to the "Body Worlds" exhibit at the museum - creepy, but interesting. I remember seeing one particular cadaver who's spine looked like it was twice as thick as all the others, and thinking to myself "that dude lifted heavy stuff."

xrays apparently are the way to rate Bone Growth. just like a DEXA scan is good for muscle / lean mass

 

[Anna C]

I remember seeing one particular cadaver who's spine looked like it was twice as thick as all the others, and thinking to myself "that dude lifted heavy stuff."

Interesting idea. Does lifting make the bones BIGGER, too? Or does it just make them MORE DENSE? I'm guessing Z-score and T-score are only the density and have nothing to do with the size, but I don't actually know.

Maybe "big boned" really is a thing....

 

[WhatWouldHulkDo]

Maybe "big boned" really is a thing....

Some genetic component, no doubt... I also wonder if their could be some relationship to what kind of activities you do as an adolescent.

 

[guardian7]

Some genetic component, no doubt... I also wonder if their could be some relationship to what kind of activities you do as an adolescent.

I particularly worry that young people today are either being pushed to elite sports or specialization too quickly, or just not getting a basic foundation of movement, running etc. that serves us well in later life. I am happy to be born well before the smartphone invention.

 

[WhatWouldHulkDo]

I particularly worry that young people today are either being pushed to elite sports or specialization too quickly, or just not getting a basic foundation of movement, running etc. that serves us well in later life. I am happy to be born well before the smartphone invention.

Quite true... despite living in an age of unlimited information, the gap between the majority and the elite seems to be growing in far too many aspects of our lives... one would think it should be the opposite.

I'm just gonna do whatever I can to leave a cadaver with a thick/dense spine. And yes, I'll probably consume some booze along the way.

 

[Antti]

I particularly worry that young people today are either being pushed to elite sports or specialization too quickly, or just not getting a basic foundation of movement, running etc. that serves us well in later life. I am happy to be born well before the smartphone invention.

That worry is real, and it is happening now, and happening more and more.

However, I wouldn't blame the smartphone for it. The world of Sports has changed, or maybe the means of it the most.

I'll also say that early spesialiation isn't only a worry of missing the foundation for later life, but often the main sport itself.

Some sports are obviously in a different context, like women's gymnastics.

 

[Dydo]

.........

I am a binge drinker(this is just the acceptance of definition of a binge drinker, I am one of the people that drink much less than average among my friends), who did not like the outcome of this study.

And how much do your friends drink. I'm just asking to find out where I am. Or at least where I was until recently.
Actually, what is meant by heavy drinking according to the people who write here. And it doesn't have to match the definition of alcoholism given by the World Health Organization. Because according to this definition, if, for example, you drink 50 ml of concentrated alcohol every day or drink 200 ml at once, you are an alcoholic. And if we follow this logic, the people of the world must be alcoholics en masse.

 

[Ege]

And how much do your friends drink. I'm just asking to find out where I am. Or at least where I was until recently.
Actually, what is meant by heavy drinking according to the people who write here. And it doesn't have to match the definition of alcoholism given by the World Health Organization. Because according to this definition, if, for example, you drink 50 ml of concentrated alcohol every day or drink 200 ml at once, you are an alcoholic. And if we follow this logic, the people of the world must be alcoholics en masse.

There was a post about alcohol consumption in this forum and when I looked at the posts, I have seen really very modest amounts of alcohol consumption.

I will be very honest amount the consumption numbers that is why I want to give a bit of background:
I have always worked as an executive in multinational companies (until recently), graduated from best Electrics Engineering school in Turkey aced many maths exams and received math awards. ( I am not trying to brag, this is first time in this forum I talk about my professional past, nothing indeed fancy but I am just sharing to give a perspective, I did not live an alcoholic on the streets.)

I lived in various countries and cities. Currently I live in Izmir, Turkey which is famous by its easy going people and laid back culture.

So although the amount that I am going to share Is I believe not impressive for Russians or Irish
whom I witnesses that drink really really quite heavy, still extravagant for the amounts I see in this forum.

A standard Friday night would start with drinking Turkish raki which is a hard liquor 43-45 % and if that is a good start for night you would be expected to drink half of a big bottle 35 cl (12 oz) + 2-4 beers or 2-4 servings of whiskey.

I drink less than average of my friends cause I do this only 4-5 times a month. Some do a lot more often.

I know this is embarrassingly high amount, I occasionally don’t drink for a couple of months so on a yearly basis I believe my average is bi weekly this amount but sometimes during summer it goes up.

I did not drink almost at all for like 10 years when I was living at the same house w my kids. I have started to drink the above amount in last two years…

I know this is a lot …

 

[Dydo]

Ooo komshu.......Inri raki?
For the New Year we will be alive and well, we will celebrate in Bursa. We often go to Turkey in the month of May almost every year.
Otherwise, I am like you. 200 ml of whiskey, for example, I don't feel them. And if I drink with food, I can also drink a bottle. I don't get drunk, stagger, or lose my mind. But it's a lot and it's harmful. At the moment I don't drink a drop and I'm trying to diet and lose weight.
Greetings.

 

[WhatWouldHulkDo]

However, I wouldn't blame the smartphone for it. The world of Sports has changed, or maybe the means of it the most.

Not so much the smartphone itself per se... it's more interesting the effect that "globalization," if you will, has had on sport, particularly at the adolescent level. The smartphone is just a symbol of that globalization.

When I was a kid, it felt like just being a good local team with other kids from your neighborhood was "enough" - and there were more local teams/leagues to join. Now, it feels like local isn't enough - talented kids are drawn off to competitive teams to play other talented kids in other states (speaking as a US citizen). Which can be better for their development, obviously, but the resulting talent drain takes away from the local leagues to the point where some of them become nonviable. I feel like the increased opportunity for talented kids has resulted in less opportunity and less desire to try for the average kids - and on the whole, I'm not sure it ends up as a net good for society.

 

[Anna C]

Back to bone density...

I just caught a post on a Facebook Masters Weightlifting group from a man who just had spine surgery. He said, "I knew that progressive load bearing exercise (like Olympic weightlifting) was proven to ameliorate the effects of osteoporosis. After carving on my spine for 3.5 hours my surgeon confirmed this. My MRI results showed surface signs of osteoporosis. However, my surgeon said that I had the hardest, densest vertebrae she’s ever cut.
She also told me that retracting my erector muscles and cutting through the connective tissues was a challenge due to their density. I took it as a compliment and told her that I owe it all to lifting."

So that's a nice anecdotal increase to what my own BMD test showed. Lifting makes for strong bones, especially in the spine!