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Barbell Can someone point me to a deadlift thread on Sumo v Conventional?

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Benedictine Monk

Benedictine Monk

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I'm experimenting with my stance (thinking of going back to conventional) to avoid blowing out of my jeans and other pants as well as trying to not linger too long on my negative. I didn't want to beat a dead horse, so I was curious if anyone can point me to a thread or threads on the SFG philosophy on stance for the deadlift and also the thoughts on the lower phase of rep under either PTTP or Daily Dose (I'm assuming that even though PTTP was written awhile ago, Dr. Hartle may have developed some tweaks that is covered in the courses and certs for the barbell).

Cheers.
 
Sumo deadlift is an assistance exercise to me. A deadlift should be a jump stance. It is a good exercise but conventional deadlift is the deadlift.

A powerlifting sumo deadlift is just a way to shorten the range of motion. Some round the upper back to shorten the pull even more. Just like the excessively wide and arched bench press, and the sumo good morning squat.
 
Hello,

The more your legs are wide, the less you have to pull (sumo case). A narrow stance seems to me more challenging but requires a "stronger" core.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
@Benedictine Monk, all DL styles are worth learning and worth training at some point. We teach narrow sumo in large part because it mimics our kettlebell swing stance; this lets people with a kettlebell background learn the barbell more easily.

There are notable differences. IMHO, sumo is more technical, more likely to "go or not go" on a heavy lift, while conventional allows you to "muscle through" a sticking point. Sumo is more focused on legs and hip while conventional uses more back and hips.

And I'm sure we could add to that list.

-S-
 
@Steve Freides- I would have to agree that sumo is far more technical. While it has a much shorter range of motion I can't seem to pull any where near sumo what I can conventional. The difference for me is well over 100 pounds.
 
@ShawnM, I am much the same way. I am going to keep working on my sumo in off-meet cycles and hope it will keep improving.

-S-
 
ShawnM said:
@Steve Freides- I would have to agree that sumo is far more technical. While it has a much shorter range of motion I can't seem to pull any where near sumo what I can conventional. The difference for me is well over 100 pounds.
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This shows how individual this can be. Personally, I'm a narrow sumo guy. It feels very natural and powerful. I can just grip it and rip it without a lot of thought and can lift a lot more than I can conventional.

Then there's the trap bar, which is an even more natural groove (for me), and on which I can pull a lot more weight than on a straight bar. But that's almost more of it's own separate thing than directly comparable to a DL with a straight bar.

I know that for athletes, Eric Cressey recommends sumo and trap bar as lower skill/lower mobility demand regressions that can be accessible for many people who have difficulty with conventional.
 
I would work both into my session. If you're doing daily dose, then a different style each day is the way to go. The problem is figuring out your max with each movement but you can play with it and get there.
 
banzaiengr said:
I would work both into my session. If you're doing daily dose, then a different style each day is the way to go. The problem is figuring out your max with each movement but you can play with it and get there.
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@banzaiengr, the traditional way to train multiple DL styles is to train the style you _don't_ compete with during your off-season and then switch as a competition nears. I've heard of some lifters, very comfortable with their competition form, doing almost all of their training the other way.

My point here is that mixing the two isn't generally done - best to focus on one, make some progress on it, and at some point, switch to the other.

-S-
 
Steve Freides said:
@banzaiengr, the traditional way to train multiple DL styles is to train the style you _don't_ compete with during your off-season and then switch as a competition nears. I've heard of some lifters, very comfortable with their competition form, doing almost all of their training the other way.

My point here is that mixing the two isn't generally done - best to focus on one, make some progress on it, and at some point, switch to the other.

-S-
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Well of course Steve, but I don't take Benedictine Monk's post as if he's training for a meet.

Even daily dose squat programs have you squat differently each day. But you wouldn't use that to train for a powerlifting meet.

But what do I know about preparing for a competition. : )
 
@Benedictine Monk Have you tried the Straddle Deadlift, also known as the Jefferson Deadlift. It is a benificial deadlift variation. It is in between conventional, and sumo stances, but I would still keep the conventional deadlift as a core lift.



For the low back you could do good mornings, stiff legged deadlifts, or straight legged deadlifts using sumo or conventional stance. Sumo good mornings and stiff legged deadlifts were a staple of Tommy Kono for low back strength and hip flexibility. Do a few lighter sets after your working sets. There are other good low back exercises, but if you only have a barbell those are the best.
 
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@Geoff Chafe I don't usually recommend the Jefferson lift until someone has some decent conventional or sumo back and leg strength, and it's not the most friendly exercise if your spine doesn't like bending. I humbly suggest that @Benedictine Monk stick with conventional or sumo for a while before trying this.

-S-
 
Following our StrogFirst SFL Barbell methodology, I suggest to start with arrow Sumo, and run at least few cycles.
 
@Steve Freides Yes, upon further thought straddle deadlifts demand less flexibility, but more skill. I see how you would not reccomend it for someone with a questionable spine because of the forces required to resist flexion and rotation. I agree a trainee should become comfortable with the conventional deadlift before moving on to other deadlift variations.

What is narrow sumo stance? This is a new term to me. My stance is wider than hip wide, and toes slightly turned out, but I would not call it narrow sumo. I would call it a jump stance.

I excelled at the Jefferson deadlift right away, but I have a significant amount of experience with pulls and deadlifts.
 
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