watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
Do you actually practice power cleans?
Bodyweight Do push ups give you breast-like pecs?
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Do you actually practice power cleans?
Simply strong
Level 4 Valued Member
Yes. Not very often but I can power clean 100kg with a small knee bend on the catch (BW 75kg). If the depth started to get questionable I reckon I could add 20kg to that but I’m not sure as I don’t really train that. It’s possible that I’m bias though because my PC set up is very similar to my deadlift (high hips, same hook grip etc) where I know others it differs more.
watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
Yep -- they should not look the same.
My feet positions are different, my torso angle is different, my hips are much lower, my shoulders are over the bar more, I don't lockout my hips because I need to do the 2nd pull, etc, etc.
Pretty much every weightlifting coach would say if your power clean looks like your DL you're doing it wrong.
If you want to get better at power cleans, you have to realize they're not deadlifts -- the correct positions are quite different.
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Simply strong
Level 4 Valued Member
I mean I’m not a weightlifter and don’t claim to be. I’m sure your correct. Either way it’s not a hill I'm willing to die on. My point was very much that you can use a multitude of movements to benefit a lift without going down the rabbit hole of “I I must only train this one pressing exercise so must make sure it’s the best in every way”. I feel the PC has benefitted my deadlift so I put it on the list. Feel free to move it to the category of assistance movement if you wish.
I have seen weightlifters pull with higher hips (GBRs National champion jack Oliver as an example off the top of my head) so I allowed myself to pulled with high hips when I found it felt more comfortable to do it that way. It’s also closer to my deadlift so even if it’s not the absolute best way to PC it served my purposes.
watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
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Simply strong
Level 4 Valued Member
Also, it’s a PC and a deadlift. They are objectively similar movements. It’s not like one of them is basketball for crying out loud.
watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
I guess I don't understand what the unique big insight is.
Yep, you can combine upper body grinds (presses) and lower body grinds (DLs, squats).
Yep, you can combine lower body ballistics (cleans) and upper body grinds (presses)
Yep, you can mix upper body ballistics (jerks) with lower body grinds (squats).
People have been programming like this for decades.
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watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
I agree with @watchnerd here - they're only similar if you're not trying to do the best form in each. One could argue that the clean and jerk and the snatch are similar movements because they both start with the bar on the ground and both end with the bar overhead but I don't think you'll find many people who'd agree with that, either.
I'm in the midst of learning the barbell clean, and even at my novice stage, there are a million was to do it: all arms, start with bent knees but finish without out a dip, start bent knees and finish with a dip, etc. None of them feel like they have anything to do with my deadlift.
FWIW, on the days I do these, if pairing with grinds, I go from cleans into front squats into low bar back squats as my first grind, and if I'm going to do more grinds, then it's PL meet order: BP next and finally end with DL.
JMO, YMMV.
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Boris Bachmann
Level 8 Valued Member
Sometimes. I have a gut but do not have anterior pelvic tilt. My gut is probably as much due to eating as it is squatting (and the two things DO go together). I wouldn't say I overeat but I don't ever stress about diet. If I was serious about losing the midsection, I would have to quit lifting heavy.
WxHerk
Level 8 Valued Member
But then you wouldn't really be the Boris we all know and love around here......
watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
When I'm in a caloric deficit*, my lift numbers suffer or at least plateau.
I think it's pretty common.
*EDIT: I can be in a mild -10-15% deficit and not notice much difference if my macros are super on point. But if not, or at -20%, performance suffers.
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Agreed, but he said "quit lifting heavy" - that's different than just your numbers taking a hit.
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watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
Now I sort of want to see @Boris Bachmann 's "squat routine for physique competitors".
I believe that would be:
Front Squat like all those pretty Olympic lifters do.
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Hung
Level 8 Valued Member
Many bodybuilding coaches nowadays recommended heavy lifting (in terms of % 1RM) for a certain lifts while cutting, especially if the customer is natural
watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
I could see that working pretty well to try to force lean mass retention if most of your work prior to cutting was lots of sets of hypertrophy work in the middle rep zones as it would be a novel stimulus.
Boris Bachmann
Level 8 Valued Member
No, it would be the only way for me. I'm not saying you (the general 'you') can't lift heavy and have a (relatively) svelte waist - obviously there are great weightlifters and powerlifters that do it. No one who squats 500+ is going to have a wasp-waist, but it's possible to not have much of a gut if your genetics are such and you are disciplined at the training table. I'm just saying it's probably not something I can do. Heavy lifting stimulates appetite for me, and turning down chow is not my strong suit.
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