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Kettlebell Dry Fighting Weight Preflight

GreenSoup

Level 5 Valued Member
Now that my shoulder is ready to press again my next goal of fat loss and the promise of not having to diet much makes Dry Fighting Weight a good program to try.
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“Dry Fighting Weight”: Fat Loss Through Strength | StrongFirst

Let's look to both science and weightlifters to see to do for fat loss. May you reach your target weight without the dishonor of dieting and aerobics!
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Starting from 185 lbs now I would be ripped (or close to it) at 170. My maintenance calories have been 2500-2600. Dry Fighting Weight has a few options so to optimize my situation for fat loss I have questions on calories (not mentioned at all in the plan) and weight selection (5rm):

Nutrition: Since it is supposed to be fat loss by recomposition with a lot of work, should I just eat maintenance calories? Or is a deficit still recommended for the best fat-loss results? Or even a surplus for the muscle gain element of the plan? How much of a deficit or surplus?

Weight Selection for fat loss:

I have a 16kg kettlebell my recovering arm can already military press for 9+ reps and the 24kg I may not be able to press. I also have loadable dumbbells.

Option 1) Use adjustable dumbbells to find the exact 5RM for double presses
Option 2) Add enough pauses during the press as a progression to bring the 16kg down to the required 5RM in a single kettlebell format
Option 3) Clean both the 16kg and 24kg kettlebells but only press with one arm at a time. It might have the metabolic benefit of much heavier cleaning and squatting if that fits the plan. I can also add pauses in the press to get the most out of the 16kg press weight if needed.

I will finish my current plan in about 3 weeks so it will be good prepare ahead of time.

It will be nice to get things exactly right in Dry Fighting Weight so I can keep a reliable fat loss plan in the toolbox. I could then feel comfortable adding calories for hypertrophy training later and resting assured I can keep the promises I make to myself when eating like that.

Thank you for your assistance.
 
Option one will get you the closest to DFWs intended effects. Dumbbell C&P isn’t near as fun as kettlebell or barbell IMO tho. The reps aren't too high in DFW and it’s mostly high rep where DBs get so tedious.

If you want to lose 15 pounds, you’ll have to eat at a deficit. What’s your timeline for your goal weight of 170?
 
Hrungnir said:
Option one will get you the closest to DFWs intended effects. Dumbbell C&P isn’t near as fun as kettlebell or barbell IMO tho. The reps aren't too high in DFW and it’s mostly high rep where DBs get so tedious.

If you want to lose 15 pounds, you’ll have to eat at a deficit. What’s your timeline for your goal weight of 170?
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Thank you for the information. There is no timeline and the fat loss does not really matter for anything but vanity. Actually the idea of exercise instead of intense dieting was the draw of DFW but if it requires some calorie restriction I still want to see what kind of magic happens with this plan.
 
@GreenSoup, I'd consider - at least - completing your recovery before embarking on DFW, or doing DFW with a pair of 16's. If you start now, I think your option #2 would be best, but the downside is that you're then giving yourself another variable to manage, namely exactly how and for how long you pause. Personally, thinking about the timing of a pause would make me crazy.

You could pick up a 20 kg bell if you think you could handle 5 reps on your recovering arm with it, but 16 kg x 10 reps suggests, according to the 1RM calculator on exrx.net, a 1RM of 21 kg, so I don't think that would be good, either.

You could also do what some of us did when kettlebells were only available in 16, 24, and 32 kg and duct tape one or more 2-1/2 lb, 1-inch hole plates to the bottom of your 16. 18 kg for 5 reps suggests a 1RM of 20 kg according to the same calculator, so adding a couple of small plates or, of course, getting yourself an 18 kg kettlebell (I own one, StrongFirst sells them) would be the best options.

I know none of this sounds perfect, but injured isn't perfect, and being in the middle of recovering from an injury isn't perfect, either, so I'd play thing conservatively, hope DFW improves your 5RM press number, and then you can run it again with a heavier bell.

-S-
 
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Thank you for the tips @Steve Freides

I have been running a few programs since deciding to bring the injury back to work and after a few months of work I feel that my military pressing and traditional pushups are fine for my shoulder, albeit still not at old PRs. Wide pushups and one armed pushups are not something I would work aggressively at this time though.

Since I used the clean and press with Staley's EDT program just before my current program I'm [foolishly?] optimistic the DFW volume level would be okay. I predict my next press test in a couple of weeks will put my max in the kind of middle ground that will need the tips you provided.
 
Geoff Neupert said:
@GreenSoup,

Sounds like Option 1 would be the "best" option for you currently, unless you can get ahold of a pair of 20kg KBs and test your RM with them.

Please let us know what you decide doing and how it works for you.
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Will do and I will post results. It's nice to hear from the plan's author!
 
Tstaggs said:
@Geoff Neupert

If one ran this with one KB, would you suggest following the same rep scheme, A1 right, A2 right, A1 left, A2 left, etc?
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@Tstaggs,

This plan is a double KB plan, so I wouldn't run it with a single KB. The results won't be the same.

That being said, if you insist on doing so, do your Presses starting with your strong side first, followed by your stronger side. Rest. Then repeat with your Front Squats.
 
Geoff Neupert said:
@Tstaggs,

This plan is a double KB plan, so I wouldn't run it with a single KB. The results won't be the same.
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The article says that two KB is better, but it can be done with one KB. Or you have something else in mind per the comments above. I am asking this question because my KB18 (which I have already sold) is light for the program and therefore I ordered a KB20. I also have KB24, but I can't do a strict press for 7-8 reps. I was going to start with the KB20 for a couple of cycles and then the KB24.
Now I see that you wouldn't run the program with one KB, which confuses me a bit.
 
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@Dydo,

I stand corrected. You are right. I forgot that I actually wrote that (it's been 8+ years).

HOWEVER, as I stated in the article still holds true:

My preference is always a pair of kettlebells for the intermediate kettlebell user because of the greater systemic strength effect. That means there is more demand placed on the body to get stronger, so it does.
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If you can use a 24kg for a 5RM, then you should be good to go. If not, use your 20kg.

I hope this clears up any misunderstanding I created.
 
Thanks for the input Geoff.
I'll try if I can press the KB24 five times. But I had an idea in my head if KB20 was still light to just aim for a higher density during those 30 min. I'm very new to KB training and still figuring out what I can realistically do in terms of weight and lifts. The most I've cleaned without swinging (from the floor) is KB36, which was the heaviest in the gym, but that's about my max.
 
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@Geoff Neupert

Thanks for the information. Thinking of DFW after I reach timed simple. And have plenty of time/work to go. Gives me time to save up for another KB. I have 16, 20, 24, 32. Just have to figure out which one to pair up.
 
Geoff Neupert said:
@GreenSoup,

Sounds like Option 1 would be the "best" option for you currently, unless you can get ahold of a pair of 20kg KBs and test your RM with them.

Please let us know what you decide doing and how it works for you.
Click to expand...
I am using dumbbells for Option 1.

My chosen weights are 35lb dumbbells for an exact 5rm. Oddly, I can press the 35lb kettlebell for 10 reps. In another thread it was said that even up to a 5rm for front squat would be fine to use with the plan but I seem to have a 8rm for the rack hold before these dumbbells want to jump out, even if my legs could do more.

So these are the stats for my first run of the Dry Fighting Weight program:

Single 16kg kettlebell military press max: 10rm
Double 35lb dumbbell (70lb) military press max: 5rm (same weight, different form factor)
Double 35lb dumbbell front squat (70lb) max: 8 before arms can no longer keep dumbbells in the racked position.
Waist: 35.5"
Height: 6'2"
Weight: 183.0 lbs
Electrical impedance scale's body fat percentage: 15.6%

Primary goal: Fat loss to a 34" waist while improving general fitness
Bonus goal: Press a 24kg/53lb kettlebell again for the first time in over a year with the left arm

Variations from the program as originally written:
1) Using dumbbells instead of KBs to get the exact press 5rm (even though the DBs give fewer reps at the same weight as the single kettlebell)
2) Cutting about 200 calories from maintenance to help the fat loss
3) Focusing on nasal breathing

Impressions: I’m already on week 2. On the first day I think my shoulder was not accustomed to the lockout with a dumbbell compared to a kettlebell. After that things are starting to pick up and every rep feels good. I think I even prefer the dumbbell clean from the floor to kettlebells.
 
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This week I have concluded my first run through Dry Fighting Weight.

Primary goal: Fat loss to a 34" waist while improving general fitness and strength

I planned to be in a daily 200 calorie deficit to help fat loss results but a storm of chaos happened in these weeks. The fat loss was exclusively for vanity I decided to put my focus and commitment on being present for people and with a reduction in the mental overhead of meal planning exclusively for myself. I tracked calories after a meal, rather than planning and prepping. This ended the four weeks with a recorded calorie deficit of only 1300. Any results are from DFW exclusively.

AFTER DFW and tests:
Height: 6'2"
Weight was 183.0 lbs the Sunday before DFW, then the Sunday after at 183.0 and Tuesday at 183.6 but with higher water percentage
Electrical impedance scale's body fat percentage was 15.6%, Sunday was 15.6% again, with a higher water percentage on Tuesday it was at 15.3%
Waist circumference was 35.5" but after 4 weeks it was 35.0” on Sunday and 35.25” on Tuesday.

Fat loss impressions: Considering the eating was close to my normal diet and maintenance calories, losing either a half or quarter inch on the waist seems like a win. Especially when the scale supposedly gives weight, fat%, water% and muscle% and it was exactly the same the Sunday before first workout and the Sunday after the last workout. Water weight (in this case 59.6 vs 60.1% as a difference in two days’ morning weigh ins) tipped the other percentages so I know electrical impedance is just a loose guideline, but the tape shows a lower waist circumference both times. Same weight, almost the same calories, slimmer waist. This is a win.

Double 35lb dumbbell (70lb) military press max from 5rm to 7rm
Double 40lb dumbbell (80lb) military press max to 5rm
Double 35lb dumbbell front squat (70lb) max WAS 8 before arms could no longer keep dumbbells in the racked position
Double 40lb dumbbell (80lb) front squat NOW is to 11 and a half before the rack hold fails

Bonus goal: Press a 24kg/53lb kettlebell again for the first time in over a year with the left arm (only quarter presses when tested before DFW): Now not quite a half press, but definitely higher than before

Strength Impressions: I liked the opportunity for 30 minutes of “iron meditation" on a simple, clear, continuous plan. As far as overhead pressing is concerned, my left arm injury is fully healed. Having been off swings for a while my conditioning was challenged perhaps more than my strength so I recommend anyone use the option for doubles rather than a single kettlebell on this plan. Singles would have made it even more metabolic. Without training front squats before DFW, the rack hold was as much of a challenge as if pullups were added. My old pullup reps stayed the same too without training.

The overall goal was a belly fat reduction to be closer to a 34” waist and with strength increases. At half or a quarter inch, I either got 1/3 or 1/6 of the way to my fat loss goal in four weeks without much cutting at all and definitely got stronger. Sounds good to me. Maybe I’ll give it another go with the 40lb DBs since they are a 5rm.
 
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