Other/Mixed EASY MUSCLE (Geoff Neupert)

[GreenSoup]

Geoff’s programs are so great for guys like me. I’m looking to get leaner (5’6” and 160 lbs at 15% BF). Is there another 3 day a week program I should run or just keep on EM? I own the Giant and KB Extreme Burn. Not sure about Maximorium but read that’s ideally a 4 day a week program. So leaning towards EM again but with 2x16 kg. I could keep going after as I have two 20 kg bells also. Anyone have any advice?

Congrats on your success. I just began my Easy Muscle Schedule A 16kg journey today. I don't know if the earlier programs match the version I got from Strong And Fit, but it actually includes the 8 week clean + push press plan that you can put in front of schedule A if you have a 7-8RM. I like the idea of sticking with a program because I've been program hopping for years and I wonder what would have happened if I just stuck to the exact same thing for at least a year (or until it stopped working). Since I've tried Geoff's programs before getting EM I want to stick with it at least long enough to see if I can "beat" the kettlebells I own like a video game.

If you felt the 8 weeks are a little long just to add two reps, I agree. I always got +2 reps after 4-6 weeks of a decent bodyweight max strength program. That said, I don't have all his years of teaching experience. To add two reps quickly without 8 weeks of push pressing these are my ideas:

-Bauer's plan looks sold with the *.08 of Schedule A for 4 weeks.
-Do a short program: Do 20m of C+P with your 16s for 5 reps three times a week for two weeks. Test the RM.
-Do the EM push press plan for 8 weeks, or perhaps less if you feel that you are close enough to the plan

I wish every KB plan that asks for a specific rep max would say "but we know KBs have HUGE jumps in weight so if it's a 9-11RM, that's fine. If it's a 7-8RM, do THIS plan instead. If it's a different RM then it won't work as advertised."

 

[GreenSoup]

There is an inevitable hole in bell sizes when programmes are either 5RM or 10RM. RMF addresses this somewhat.
From my experience I did Giant X2 with a 9RM (9 to 11 being the recommendation) and I found the later weeks hard. By then I was somewhere on my trajectory to hsving an 11RM after the 8 weeks) but still hard.
If I had a 6, 7 or 8RM bell I'd personally consider it for a 5RM bell programme, i.e. bell down.
I know from experience belling up is hard.
I'd rather get more easy volume than push too hard too soon.

Looking at the reps used, it would not be difficult to adapt the 10RM range as a percent of any other rep range. Nor to double the reps of the 5rm and treat those as percentages. Other than my recent focus on following the program as written, that's what I would probably do if I were close to a program's RM.

 

[Bkb]

Congrats on your success. I just began my Easy Muscle Schedule A 16kg journey today. I don't know if the earlier programs match the version I got from Strong And Fit, but it actually includes the 8 week clean + push press plan that you can put in front of schedule A if you have a 7-8RM. I like the idea of sticking with a program because I've been program hopping for years and I wonder what would have happened if I just stuck to the exact same thing for at least a year (or until it stopped working). Since I've tried Geoff's programs before getting EM I want to stick with it at least long enough to see if I can "beat" the kettlebells I own like a video game.

If you felt the 8 weeks are a little long just to add two reps, I agree. I always got +2 reps after 4-6 weeks of a decent bodyweight max strength program. That said, I don't have all his years of teaching experience. To add two reps quickly without 8 weeks of push pressing these are my ideas:

-Bauer's plan looks sold with the *.08 of Schedule A for 4 weeks.
-Do a short program: Do 20m of C+P with your 16s for 5 reps three times a week for two weeks. Test the RM.
-Do the EM push press plan for 8 weeks, or perhaps less if you feel that you are close enough to the plan

I wish every KB plan that asks for a specific rep max would say "but we know KBs have HUGE jumps in weight so if it's a 9-11RM, that's fine. If it's a 7-8RM, do THIS plan instead. If it's a different RM then it won't work as advertised."

You can adjust any of GN’s programs (the auto reg ones with specific reps at least).

For example,

Let’s say a program says use a 10 rm and to do sets of 5, 6 and 7…. But you have an 8 rep max… all you’d have to do is multiply 8 by .5, .6, and .7 to get your reps adjusted for your bell.

So instead of 5,6, and 7, you’d use:

4, 5 and 6 (rounded up for simplicity).


Say you had a 12 rm… you’d do the same thing and instead of sets of 5,6,7, you’d do sets of 6,7 and 8.

 

[Bkb]

Or, follow the prescribed reps and naturally do less volume (if your rm is 8) or more volume (if your rm was 12).

 

[jmoran01]

I started A today with 2x16 and multiplied the reps by 0.8. So started with sets of 4 instead of 5 today. Got 9 sets at an RPE of about 7. I’m going to run this program this way for 4 weeks. Then retest my max.

 

[Mark Limbaga]

I started A today with 2x16 and multiplied the reps by 0.8. So started with sets of 4 instead of 5 today. Got 9 sets at an RPE of about 7. I’m going to run this program this way for 4 weeks. Then retest my max.

That can work..

Or just start at week 5 schedule B then go from there

 

[jmoran01]

Maybe I don’t adjust? My 10RM is close with 16s

 

[GreenSoup]

You can adjust any of GN’s programs (the auto reg ones with specific reps at least).

For example,

Let’s say a program says use a 10 rm and to do sets of 5, 6 and 7…. But you have an 8 rep max… all you’d have to do is multiply 8 by .5, .6, and .7 to get your reps adjusted for your bell.

You, I and people on the internet can adapt every plan. The thing that surprises me is that more trainers do not adapt their own plans like this. When it comes to kettlebell and bodyweight plans on the Internet I have only seen Fabio Zonin present totally different rep schemes to adapt a particular plan to the trainee (Simple Strength for Difficult Times 2).

 

[GreenSoup]

Maybe I don’t adjust? My 10RM is close with 16s

If you are on a specific timetable and need it done in 12 weeks, 8rm is pretty close and there is no way you won't be able to handle the extra reps as the program goes on.

If you aren't on a timetable, that it doesn't matter if your cycle ends on any particular week or day, you could first try two weeks hitting the C+P hard with 5 rep sets for 20 minutes 3x/week. It's only six sessions, then rest a day and test. After that you will probably have an extra rep to get even closer to the program.

Or just test week 1 of Schedule A. If it feels like the last time you ran week 1 it is probably fine to keep going.

[ADDED EDIT] @Mark_Limbaga 's suggestion of the rep scheme from Schedule B also could flow perfectly if you wanted an on-ramp to Schedule A.

The best thing is to keep working to reach your goals. The tool is less important than the work when you have many good choices.

 

[jmoran01]

Also I can do this program if trying to get leaner, right? Obviously will be in a slight calorie deficit.

 

[Bauer]

Maybe I don’t adjust? My 10RM is close with 16s

Try the 80% version for a week and see how it goes. Geoff has recommended this approach (reducing reps per set according to your RM) a couple of times in his publications, so this is not just DIY tinkering.

Personally I would stick with it, as this is true to the principles of the Giant and Easy Muscle.

Quality volume over time is what you are after -- and this approach will ensure it.

 

[jmoran01]

Try the 80% version for a week and see how it goes. Geoff has recommended this approach (reducing reps per set according to your RM) a couple of times in his publications, so this is not just DIY tinkering.

Personally I would stick with it, as this is true to the principles of the Giant and Easy Muscle.

Quality volume over time is what you are after -- and this approach will ensure it.

Okay this is what I’m doing. Slight deficit as I’ve bulked up a bit. It shouldn’t matter as it will minimally allow me to keep the muscle I have and maybe I build some in the process of getting lean.

 

[jmoran01]

Thanks for your help everyone. I’ve been feeling a bit lost in terms of how to train my next few months. There’s almost too much information out there these days.

 

[jmoran01]

I changed my mind and am going to do schedule b next with two 16s. Mark recommended this and it’s a good next step. Plus dips and chin-ups are great obviously. Definitely hitting most-all muscles frequently throughout the week. Will let you know how it’s going over the next few weeks!

 

[jmoran01]

Did the chin-up/dip day. Session 1 for 20 minutes today. Went well. Didn’t push too hard. What’s nice is my legs are still recovering from front squats Monday so good to give them a break.

 

[GovernorSilver]

My rep max with the 16s was closer to 5 than 10 before I started my latest Easy Muscle block (schedule A). I did 6 weeks of Kettlebell Strong Foundation to address this deficiency. Frankly I was also out of practice with my double cleans and squats so I needed to address those deficiencies as well.

I wasn't too worried though if I still didn't have a 10 rep max, because the guidelines say it's ok to substitute push press if strict press can't be done. But by the time I got to my first 7-rep session, it wasn't an issue after all.

 

[jmoran01]

Hmmm. This Friday I’m going to run session A with 2x16 kg and see how that goes. That is going to break the tie for me between A and B as my next program. I think session A is going to win because I like the idea of higher frequency C&P for where I am at. I want to get stronger and the higher amount of volume I think is going to work better for me. And maybe I stay in session A going up in weight until I plateau. I own a pair of 20s so that would be next after 16s. Also good point with the push press! I can use that if I hit technical failure the press.

 

[jmoran01]

So there’s plans and then there is what I actually did this am. Went with session A day 2 (C&P and front squats). Did 2x16 for the C&P and 2x12 for FS. Went well and liked it. Think I will run this program to completion. The only issue and I’m hoping this is fine is that I can only do 5 chin ups as my max so using the C&P rep scheme for the chin ups. But that should work still. Also if I shed a few pounds these will become easier over the month.

 

[Mark Limbaga]

So there’s plans and then there is what I actually did this am. Went with session A day 2 (C&P and front squats). Did 2x16 for the C&P and 2x12 for FS. Went well and liked it. Think I will run this program to completion. The only issue and I’m hoping this is fine is that I can only do 5 chin ups as my max so using the C&P rep scheme for the chin ups. But that should work still. Also if I shed a few pounds these will become easier over the month.

I'd probably sub single arm rows or gorilla rows for the chinups at the moment

Or do a different plan for chinups altogether

 

[jmoran01]

I'd probably sub single arm rows or gorilla rows for the chinups at the moment

Or do a different plan for chinups altogether

What’s your thinking here? Too much volume/weight for the program overall? Too hard to recover from with this program?