Bodyweight Eccentric training - how long should last?

[Minimalist]

I would like to start train eccentric handstand push ups with elbows close to the body (it is much harder than wide). I will start with 3 sets of 3 reps and I'm wondering how long should last this eccentric cycle? I know that this method is very tiring, so train this way for long time is not good idea? 4 weeks will be okay?

9 reps of eccentric HS push ups on the 1 sessions is enough? or should be at least 15 reps? Of course I will start with 3 sets of 3 reps and gradually build more volume.

 

[bluejeff]

I’d start with the 3x3 you’re suggesting and see how your body responds. Try them at MOST every other day, otherwise 2-3x/week. If you haven’t worked heavy eccentrics before they can make you pretty sore. Then I’d work up to 3x5 and 5x5.

Theres also Stephen lows prilipen tables. There’s one for eccentrics here:

Prilepin tables for bodyweight strength isometric and eccentric exercises - Steven Low

The Second Edition of Overcoming Gravity has been released on Amazon! This is one of the articles that I wrote in response to the First Edition of the book, and more detail is included about this topic in the Second Edition. I’ve worked on overhauling this article to give you a

stevenlow.org

 

[Minimalist]

I’d start with the 3x3 you’re suggesting and see how your body responds. Try them at MOST every other day, otherwise 2-3x/week. If you haven’t worked heavy eccentrics before they can make you pretty sore. Then I’d work up to 3x5 and 5x5.

Theres also Stephen lows prilipen tables. There’s one for eccentrics here:

Prilepin tables for bodyweight strength isometric and eccentric exercises - Steven Low

The Second Edition of Overcoming Gravity has been released on Amazon! This is one of the articles that I wrote in response to the First Edition of the book, and more detail is included about this topic in the Second Edition. I’ve worked on overhauling this article to give you a

stevenlow.org

Thank you. Is it good idea to rest between reps? 1 min or more?

 

[bluejeff]

Thank you. Is it good idea to rest between reps? 1 min or more?

I would try to keep the rests between each rep under 90 seconds. Rest 3-5 minutes or more between sets. After trying them for a week or two you will likely figure out the rest periods, rep schemes and eccentric contraction times that work for you.

You could definitely do these for ~6 weeks and see where that gets you. The six week mark seems to be the general rule for how long it takes to see actual physical adaptations.

Most of the people I know in person who used eccentrics for HSPU worked up to at least 5x5 with 10-second (or longer) negatives. I would also heavily recommend using a metronome (you can get them for free as apps for your phone). We all tend to count our seconds faster when something is really hard ?

Last note: make sure you are striving to keep an even speed through the entire range of motion. As hard as it might be, try not to do the first 8 inches in 8 seconds and the remaining 8 inches (or whatever) in 2 seconds, if that makes sense. Might be hard at first, but I would work towards it.

 

[Minimalist]

10-second (or longer) negatives

I know that eccentric movement should be controlled, but 10 seconds is not too long? I heard that moderate tempo adjusted to resistance is good idea, because too slow will not engage high-threshold motor units. Or maybe is it true only for concentric movement?

 

[bluejeff]

I know that eccentric movement should be controlled, but 10 seconds is not too long? I heard that moderate tempo adjusted to resistance is good idea, because too slow will not engage high-threshold motor units. Or maybe is it true only for concentric movement?

That's a good question. In Stephen Low's book, I believe he even states that shorter eccentric movements elicit a greater motor unit response. However, I believe that the reasoning behind the ~10 second mark is that you need to train your nervous system to coordinate the movement. Without referencing something at the moment, heavy/slow eccentrics elicit a large nervous system response. If you're training calisthenics this is a must, in my opinion, especially if you want clean, solid, freestanding HSPUs. Eccentrics will help you learn to control the movement.

To the original question, again, Low's article, under the heading"eccentric recommendations" (which outlines how to best perform your sets and reps) states:

Generally, I’ve found that the majority of the people can perform 1 full repetition once they can perform 3 sets of 3 cluster repetitions of 7-10 seconds for almost any exercise.

Note * I recently moved and my books are all packed up, but when I unpack them later today I'll look through Low's book and try to come back with updates and/or corrections. *

 

[bluejeff]

Ok, I pulled out the book. (Overcoming Gravity, Second Edition). Without quoting too much of the book, here is some basic info.

Low recommends, as he states in the online article:

Starting with 2-3 sets of 2-3 cluster repetitions.
Example: 3 sets of (3 repetitions x 10seconds each)

To, progress, he says

. . .you can lower the rest times or increase the eccentric hold time; either works fine. It is advisable to increase the eccentric hold time first - up to the seven to ten range- before adjusting rest times.

As far as the length of the eccentric contraction and the high-threshold motor units:

Studies do show that an eccentric exercise will preferentially activate fast-twitch fibers the faster it is performed.

He recommends the ~10 second mark as a good balance between pure fast twitch (1 second eccentric) and too far the other way (20-30 seconds; endurance/metabolic stress). It allows a good mix of hypertrophic response and strength-building, he says.

Lastly, he states that eccentrics will take a bigger toll on recovery than normal concentric training, and thus "should not be a regular part of your routine."

Never use more than one or two eccentrics in a routine, and each eccentric should be in a separate category (pushing, pulling, legs or core).

He doesn't say anything about the duration of an eccentric routine, just that it can be used to break through plateaus.