Kettlebell Even Easier Strength BEFORE A+A?

[Bauer]

My main dish is currently KBSF (inspired by @don fannucci), so lots of LCCJ, 2x per week.

Due to some schedule restraints, I have decided to try Even Easier Strength (4x per week) alongside it, mostly to keep or impove my grinding strength.

(Double or single) Military Press: Around 10RM bell, sometimes lighter or heavier
Gorilla Rows: 10-15RM bell
Squats: Usually 1/2 to 2/3 of reps very easy Goblet Squats, and on or two heavier Front Squat sets (5-15 RM bells).
+ some TGUs, maybe carries, often bodysaw

AFAIK, the general recommendation is to do it after A+A. However, I prefer to do it before, as a warmup to my LCCJs, this way, the overall sessions ends autoregulated. Otherwise, I would probably have to stop my LCCJs a bit sooner than usual to keep some energy for the grinds.

Does anyone else do it this way? Do you think this is inferior?

 

[conor78]

Hey Bauer were you up to on KBSF. Are you on single bells. I’ve worked up to 30 min CJCJ with plan A.. going to push towards 180 towards Halloween. I do Bjj 3 times a week so it fits perfectly. I couldn’t train any more if I wanted to..
If I drop to 2 days I’ll income a 30/60 min TGU day..

 

[Ryan Johnson]

@Bauer
How old are you and how much "life stuff" digs into your recovery?

As I have inched into my fourth decade, I have had more success with training slightly longer days but fewer in a week.

I have experimented with a variety of setups, and my current one is in line with your question.

My suggestion is to add the moves you want to focus on into your warmup. I do this usually with 2 sets squats/mobility. 2-3 sets getups(press) and pulls.
For me the sweet spot is usually one round of goblet squat / halos then some dead bugs/ bretzl / armbar. Throw in another sets of squats, I have been trying to get better at hack squats, so that is my second set. But you could do maybe one round of ABC with double bells ( I do this about once every other week).
Two/three getups. Change the weight and press/no press pattern on every set.
Some days I press on the stages going up, or just in half kneel and standing .Some days up and down. Some day I will clean and press a heavier bell and get down then up. Regardless, you can get your press and getups motions greased at the same time.
I superset these with a few sets of weighted pullups, easy strength style. 2x5 , 3x3 or 5,3,2. I find that doing my pulls between presses or getups means zero elbow issues. You could do rows in this space, but I think weighted pullups are about as good as it gets.

A couple minutes break and you should be ready for your jerks !

 

[Mark Limbaga]

My main dish is currently KBSF (inspired by @don fannucci), so lots of LCCJ, 2x per week.

Due to some schedule restraints, I have decided to try Even Easier Strength (4x per week) alongside it, mostly to keep or impove my grinding strength.

(Double or single) Military Press: Around 10RM bell, sometimes lighter or heavier
Gorilla Rows: 10-15RM bell
Squats: Usually 1/2 to 2/3 of reps very easy Goblet Squats, and on or two heavier Front Squat sets (5-15 RM bells).
+ some TGUs, maybe carries, often bodysaw

AFAIK, the general recommendation is to do it after A+A. However, I prefer to do it before, as a warmup to my LCCJs, this way, the overall sessions ends autoregulated. Otherwise, I would probably have to stop my LCCJs a bit sooner than usual to keep some energy for the grinds.

Does anyone else do it this way? Do you think this is inferior?

I personally think it's awesome

 

[Bauer]

Hey Bauer were you up to on KBSF. Are you on single bells. I’ve worked up to 30 min CJCJ with plan A.. going to push towards 180 towards Halloween. I do Bjj 3 times a week so it fits perfectly. I couldn’t train any more if I wanted to..
If I drop to 2 days I’ll income a 30/60 min TGU day..

I am currently mixing different approaches.

The first session is usally a bit heavier and with less density, currently stuff like:
35x1 @ 24 kg (OT30, single bell)
30x2 @ 20+20 kg (OTM, doubles)
Sometimes this session is also less dense, but longer:
50 minutes of (1,2) @ 20 kg (OT30, single bell)

The second session follows the classic progression, currently stabilizing:
30x2 @ 20 kg (OT30, single bell)

@Bauer
How old are you and how much "life stuff" digs into your recovery?

As I have inched into my fourth decade, I have had more success with training slightly longer days but fewer in a week.

I have experimented with a variety of setups, and my current one is in line with your question.

My suggestion is to add the moves you want to focus on into your warmup. I do this usually with 2 sets squats/mobility. 2-3 sets getups(press) and pulls.
For me the sweet spot is usually one round of goblet squat / halos then some dead bugs/ bretzl / armbar. Throw in another sets of squats, I have been trying to get better at hack squats, so that is my second set. But you could do maybe one round of ABC with double bells ( I do this about once every other week).
Two/three getups. Change the weight and press/no press pattern on every set.
Some days I press on the stages going up, or just in half kneel and standing .Some days up and down. Some day I will clean and press a heavier bell and get down then up. Regardless, you can get your press and getups motions greased at the same time.
I superset these with a few sets of weighted pullups, easy strength style. 2x5 , 3x3 or 5,3,2. I find that doing my pulls between presses or getups means zero elbow issues. You could do rows in this space, but I think weighted pullups are about as good as it gets.

A couple minutes break and you should be ready for your jerks !

I am 36, but with kids and work demands, recovery can be an issue. I like your setup. The idea seems to be very similar: General practice of full body moves in different planes of motion, one of which gets a little more attention.

 

[Steve Freides]

My main dish is currently KBSF (inspired by @don fannucci), so lots of LCCJ, 2x per week.

Due to some schedule restraints, I have decided to try Even Easier Strength (4x per week) alongside it, mostly to keep or impove my grinding strength.

(Double or single) Military Press: Around 10RM bell, sometimes lighter or heavier
Gorilla Rows: 10-15RM bell
Squats: Usually 1/2 to 2/3 of reps very easy Goblet Squats, and on or two heavier Front Squat sets (5-15 RM bells).
+ some TGUs, maybe carries, often bodysaw

AFAIK, the general recommendation is to do it after A+A. However, I prefer to do it before, as a warmup to my LCCJs, this way, the overall sessions ends autoregulated. Otherwise, I would probably have to stop my LCCJs a bit sooner than usual to keep some energy for the grinds.

Does anyone else do it this way? Do you think this is inferior?

You've asked an interesting question. I try to keep two things in mind when planning the order of a training session. First, best to do things with the highest requirements for skill and quick movement first, e.g., Oly lifts before powerlifts, and both before endurance training of any sort.
Second, best to do what's most important to you first.

(One could argue for a third consideration, which depends on any upcoming, multi-event competitions you may have planned - do at least some of your training in competition order, e.g., I always SQ then BP then DL because that's the competition order. And no doubt there are other variables one could and should consider as well if you thought about it long enough.)

I agree with your thinking and would do your strength training first. One way to express this would be to say your strength training is just that and not strength-endurance training, but your power training is power-endurance training, and that would argue for strength first then power-endurance.

-S-

 

[rwleonard]

I have done it that way with both Q&D and A+A. Pavel has written that a more thorough warm-up enhances power performance, and that seems to track with my experience (imagine that). The 50-70% range of EES is a warm up range after all.

I think the key is to keep the EES sessioins truly EE.

 

[Bauer]

I agree with your thinking and would do your strength training first. One way to express this would be to say your strength training is just that and not strength-endurance training, but your power training is power-endurance training, and that would argue for strength first then power-endurance.

Thank you Steve, that is a good point.

This type of A+A work can both the framed as power or conditioning, and I like how you frame it as power-endurance.

I have done it that way with both Q&D and A+A. Pavel has written that a more thorough warm-up enhances power performance, and that seems to track with my experience (imagine that). The 50-70% range of EES is a warm up range after all.

I think the key is to keep the EES sessioins truly EE.

Good point, I try to do my occasional heavier reps on non-A+A days. Thanks for sharing your experience!