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Bodyweight Gama the Wrestler Training?

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Hello,

I rarely go to failure because I like daily training. Training to failure takes a little more time to recover so it makes me get out of the "GPP" I am after. However, I do admit that dropsets for instance, are extremely powerful tool to build mass.

You may also use cluster sets. They can work with bodyweight just as well as weights. They are relatively easy to recover from, and you can also get conditioning from this kind of routine. One of the great thing with cluster is that you can get a huge volume in a small amount of time, and keep recovering easily.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
This thread made me take a second look into Pavel's Beyond Body Building. In it he discusses the differences between rep ranges and such.

He recommends super high reps to build the capillaries (like in the Bioneer @LvlUpStr article posted) because:

"It has been suggested by some experts that the more extensive a muscle’s vascularity, the more the muscle will be soaked in intra-muscular metabolites and growth factors. And the more it will grow."

"Tesch et. al (1984) added that Olympic weightlifters and powerlifters, athletes who favor low rep training with long rest periods, display capillary density that is even lower than that of untrained subjects!"

Earlier in the book, he has an article about "sequential development," in which he states:
" . . .pump up your sarcoplasm, the muscle cell filler, with burning hundred rep sets in one workout (you big sissy!). Up your power and muscle density with singles, doubles, and triples in your next session for the given body part. Build the myofibrils with sets of four to twelve repetitions on your third trip to your iron pit. If you follow a four on/one off split, the whole sequence will take you fifteen days. This approach is known as sequential development . . ."

Tsatsouline, Pavel. Beyond Bodybuilding: Muscle and Strength Training Secrets for The Renaissance Man . DD Publications. Kindle Edition.

So it seems like a good idea to do different rep ranges ar different times, however you choose to periodize them.

It's also worth noting Coach Sommer's (of Gymnastic Bodies) approach. I don't know how it is these days, but ~5 years back, when I had access to his "foundations" program, all of the early level stuff was mean to build up to high reps. I checked my notes on this recently. "Mastery" of pushups was 5 sets of 15. Mastery of pseudo planche pushups was 5x10. Dips at the next tier were done for 3x5 or 5x5. In his old book Building the Gymnastic Body, he mostly recommended low reps for strength; however, I believe the high rep stuff was included in the program to get novice trainees up to snuff for the heavier stuff.

In short, it seems like you need to include multiple rep ranges...
 

It's also worth noting Coach Sommer's (of Gymnastic Bodies) approach. I don't know how it is these days, but ~5 years back, when I had access to his "foundations" program, all of the early level stuff was mean to build up to high reps. I checked my notes on this recently. "Mastery" of pushups was 5 sets of 15. Mastery of pseudo planche pushups was 5x10. Dips at the next tier were done for 3x5 or 5x5. In his old book Building the Gymnastic Body, he mostly recommended low reps for strength; however, I believe the high rep stuff was included in the program to get novice trainees up to snuff for the heavier stuff.
I'm familiar with the Coach Sommer's Foundation program. I believe he explained somewhere that the higher reps in earlier exercises are meant to slow you down a bit so connective tissue has time to develop and also to build work capacity.
 
Hello,

In short, it seems like you need to include multiple rep ranges...
I agree 100%

@LvlUpStr
Below is the training routine from a former French military instructor. He gave it during an interview. A while after, I did a bootcamp with him and asked him how he's been training. He confirmed the interview:

Day 1:
20km bike / run, 150 pull ups, 10 rope climb (4m), 500 abs
Day 2:
450 push ups, 150 dips, 150 squats with weight vest, 500 abs
Day 3:
150 box jumps, 150 squats with weight vest, 150 pull ups, 500 abs
Day 4:
450 push ups, 150 dips, 5 wall chair with weight vest, 500 abs
Day 5:
10km bike / run, 150 pull ups, 10 rope climb (4m), 500 abs

This example of high reps is still doable on a long term because this is not thousands of them. As the guy is a former military, this is fairly GPP oriented, and strength endurance based. He does this for years now (he is 55yo).

It is perfectly possible to tailor this routine. For instance, you can do 1 session with 150 pull ups, but the other one with weigthed pull ups. Same goes for squats, push ups, etc...

IronWolf's youtube channel is also in favor of high repetitions. He does insane amount of burpees, but uses plenty of variations.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
I don't know too much about Gamma but I thought it should be mentioned that Hindu squats and pushups probably weren't the only exercises he did and strength probably wasn't the only quality he was trying to develop.
 
Gamma plays around with heavy Gada, mace, rings. He also carried stone and big, heavy, awkward stuffs (including other wrestlers).

Instead of blaming his godlike strength for one or two types of training, how about (jumping to) the conclusion that his strength is based on synergy effect (2+2=5) between those type?
 
Hello,

We should also mention his diet:

We could also say that wrestling per se gives a lot of strength as well. High repetition training may also be a way to maintain discipline and get the feeling of this "edge" on the opponent. The more you do repetitions (or the heavier you lift) the more you can tell yourself you are stronger than the opponent (whether it is true or not).

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
Hello,

We should also mention his diet:

We could also say that wrestling per se gives a lot of strength as well. High repetition training may also be a way to maintain discipline and get the feeling of this "edge" on the opponent. The more you do repetitions (or the heavier you lift) the more you can tell yourself you are stronger than the opponent (whether it is true or not).

Kind regards,

Pet'
What about combining heavy strongman sandbag training compounds at low repetitions with high repetitions of hindu push ups, hindu squats, and back bridges?


Bear squats, shouldering, carries, etc?
I don’t think any gyms will be open for months to come and weights are inflated due to the lockdown but these sandbags haven’t inflated yet.

Thank you.

Kind regards.
 
Hello,

@LvlUpStr
Sandbags are an excellent tools, regardless we want to train strength or conditioning.

Depending on the sandbag weight, you can tailor the training. I guess you plan to use [relatively] heavy ones for strength training. Then, I would do low reps of big compounds, and why not a few complexes:
- Shouldering and lunges
- Shouldering and squats
- Bear hugs and carry
- Get ups

If you go for a lighter sandbag, you can get some inspiration using youtube to pick up "Bulgarian bag" exercises and routines. In this case, it would be more strength-endurance / conditioning oriented.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
High sets, low reps. Sounds like powerlifting with bodyweight exercises?

Maximum Strength Training

High Sets and Low Repetition with loads of 85% plus of a 1 Repetition develops Maximum Strength, not just the Powerlifts. With that said, one of the principles of increasing Maximum Strength is the use of load of 85% plus of a 1 Repetition Max.

An overall good article on this is...

From 0 - 100: Know Your Strength Training Percentages

While Bodyweight Training will increase Maximum Strength, it isn't going to be to the same degree.

Bodyweight Hypertrophy Strength Training

Dr Brad Schoenfeld's research demonstrated there are three component necessary for increasing muscle mass...

1) Metabolic Stress

This is also know as "The Pump" or "The Burn".

Arterial Blood Flow from the heart pump a lot of blood into the muscles with high repetition with low to moderate loads.

The muscle contraction restricts Venus Blood Flow from the muscle back the heart. The muscles balloons up (The Pump).

The Burn is produced from Lactate builds up in the muscles.

"The Pump" and "The Burn" trigger a down stream effect, Lactate triggering an Anabolic, muscle building effect.

Thus, Bodyweight Exercise for high repetition are effective at increasing muscle mass.

2) Mechanical Tension

This is Maximum Strength Training; High Sets, Low Repetitions with load of 85% of 1 Repetition Max.

Thus, Bodyweight Training with high repetitions does little to elicit it.

3) Muscle Damage

This is produced when you push a exercise to failure or near failure infrequently. That means constantly going go failure in an exercise is counter productive.

Performing Full Range Movement also produces Muscle Damage. Loaded Stretching in an exercise, such as a Full Barbell Squat in the bottom position or Dumbbell Bench Pressing. (which allow a greater stretch than a Barbell Bench Press), have been shown to increase muscle mass.

With that said, Bodyweight Stretches can evoke this effect to some degree.

I will do them in cluster sets until I finish 10.

Cluster Set Training

Breaking let's say a set of 10 repetition is to small "Clusters" of repetition is effective at developing power and increasing muscle mass (Research Dr Jonathan Oliver).

"Cluster Set Hypertrophy Training" is a close second to Traditional Hypertrophy Training.

The short Cluster Sets eliminate the build up of Lactate; which decreases Maximum Strength and Power. That is one of the reasons that High Repetition are ineffective at increasing Maximum Strength and Power.

With that said, Lactate build up in the muscles is one the driving forces that produces an increase in muscle mass; triggering the anabolic process.

How To Build Actual Size and Performance with Advanced Bodybuilding Training

This is a mixed bag of good information, gray area information, misinformation and some hyperbolic statements.

Let's look at some of the good points...

1) Bodybuilding Exercise can increase muscle mass.

2) Isometric Actions are effective at increasing Maximum Strength.

3) Varying Exercises

The is one of the fundamental rule for increasing muscle mass and increasing strength.
 
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Hello,

@kennycro@@aol.com
When we compare G. Gama's routine and H. Walker's routine, we see they are roughly the same (plenty of push ups on both sides, sprints and running and abs for Walker, and Hindu squats for Gama). Gama was wrestler, and H. Walker was MMArtist when older.

Based on your experience and scientific background, what could explain such difference in physical development ?


Kind regards,

Pet'
 
Gama was wrestler, and H. Walker

Gama

I have no comment since I am unfamiliar with him or his training.

Herschel Walker

I have very low opinion of his approach to training.

"...2,000-3,000 push-ups and sit-ups every day."

it provides some increases in strength, as any type of strength program does.

However, it isn't very effective for increasing Maximum Strength, Power nor Speed.

His poor training was overridden by his great genetics.
 
Thank you everyone! I will study these in detail.

I did 200 hindu push ups, 100 back bridges, 100 dips, and 500 hindu squats today, it was tough.

I train the back on alternate days and do the squats and calf raises daily.

20 x 10 Pull Ups
10 x 10 Back Bridges
10 x 10 Chin Ups
20 x 25 Hindu Squats
100 Calf Raises
 
Hello,

@LvlUpStr
Here is the IronWolf's youtube channel

He is a Marine Corps Martial Arts Instructor Trainer and a Marine Corps Force Fitness Instructor

When you do some kind of overview of his video you may notice that:
- Most of the routines are very "functional" (which seems to be what you are after)
- He is pretty fit and has stamina
- Probably not the stronger guy ever, but he has this "always ready-to-go" strength
- Routines do not last that long

This kind of routine is not the best for neither strength nor endurance, because this is a continuum. Nonetheless, if you are "okay" with a routine which tries to make a compromise, then it can be worth considering.

An idea could be to work on strength - as you already do - and perform this kind of routine on alternate days. When we do not go into the red zone, and if we do this routine with nasal breathing to work on aerobic pathway then this is almost refreshing. If you are under a strict lockdown in the UK then...

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
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Hello,

@LvlUpStr
Here is the IronWolf's youtube channel

He is a Marine Corps Martial Arts Instructor Trainer and a Marine Corps Force Fitness Instructor

Kind regards,

Pet'

Thank you!

I was also wondering with regards to the maximal strength and perhaps Kenny will be able to answer this.

Can I increase my deadlift without deadlifting? If I bought a sandbag with handles and did low repetitions of high pulls, will that develop strength in powerlifting exercises? I want to build my deadlift from 180KG to 250KG.
 
Earlier this year I tried Michael Yessis' 1x20 program. Basically, you work every joint in the body for 1 set of 20 reps. He claims that the high reps will build strength, build tendon health and are easier to recover from. (He makes other claims, too, but I don't remember them.) The strength claims make sense. Aside from the science that shows you build strength when you push to failure in higher reps, it just makes sense that if you can lift 100lbs for 20 reps and you keep adding weight until you're lifting 200lbs for 20 reps, you've gotten stronger.

I loved this training. It cleared up some significant muscle imbalances and I feel like a bunch of bad movement patterns were reset because every joint and every muscle got attention. Strength gains were faster than anything else I've tried and it was really easy to recover from.

The only downside to this training was that I was doing bodyweight training with a suspension trainer, so when I progressed to a harder movement my reps would drop down, sometimes as low as 5, and I'd have to build up to 20 again. This program is clearly meant for barbells because you can micro-load, keeping your reps in the 18-23 rep range that Yessis wants.

If I ever go back to barbell training, I will 100% return to this program. The rate of strength gain was faster than anything else I've ever done. And there was some nice hypertrophy going on.
 
Hello,

@LvlUpStr
I rarely do DL, but tend to work around it.

If we consider the moves which require weights:
- Swing
- Good morning
- Single leg DL

If we consider pure bodyweight moves:
- Full back bridge (either two legged or one legged, but very explosive in all cases)
- Bent arm planche
- Pistol squats (to a certain extent, they help)
- Running
- Jumping

However, if we consider pure bodyweight only, you'll be well served by also working on your core (Dragon Flags, Levers, etc...) and back (pull ups).

Since I do daily repetitions of hanging leg raises (clearly, a game changer for me as far as the core goes) and full back bridges, my kb swing have gone through the roof. Swings and DL use the same muscular chains, so I assume that it may have helped my regular DL.

Bear in mind that some people have a DL technique which is more quad dominant. Some others have a more hip dominant technique.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
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Hello,

@LvlUpStr
I rarely do DL, but tend to work around it.

If we consider the moves which require weights:
- Swing
- Good morning
- Single leg DL

If we consider pure bodyweight moves:
- Full back bridge (either two legged or one legged, but very explosive in all cases)
- Bent arm planche
- Pistol squats (to a certain extent, they help)
- Running
- Jumping

However, if we consider pure bodyweight only, you'll be well served by also working on your core (Dragon Flags, Levers, etc...) and back (pull ups).

Since I do daily repetitions of hanging leg raises (clearly, a game changer for me as far as the core goes) and full back bridges, my kb swing have gone through the roof. Swings and DL use the same muscular chains, so I assume that it may have helped my regular DL.

Bear in mind that some people have a DL technique which is more quad dominant. Some others have a more hip dominant technique.

Kind regards,

Pet'
Thank you, I started doing the back bridges today and I can feel it in my lower back and glutes. If I had to describe it, it feels like I have been on an intense sprinting session.

I will also start doing the hanging leg raises as well.
Do you think heavy kettlebell training develops more power than sandbag training?

Kind Regards.
 
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