Kettlebell "Giant 1.0"

[guardian7]

I am definitely going to try for something like this.

I try to avoid back to back training days.
But I do 12 shift's & sometimes I just feel extra sleep is more optimal & I will cram my training on my days off instead.

Thanks for the advice.

I guess it depends on everyone's rhythm of workweek and/or family life, and if they are working from home or not these days. I work from home now a lot and kid is doing elearning so the weekend has mostly lost its meaning. In your case, you would probably want the heavy-light to be your back to back days if necessary. Stever Friedes mentioned a Mon Medium, Thursday Heavy, Sat. light option as he likes to have the two days before the heavy day and the light day doesn't need much recovery. Sometimes he does heavy days on Saturday as it is his usual competition day.

 

[watchnerd]

@guardian7 , it's my understanding that the heavy volume day is Wednesday because of a study done a while back by the Soviets that showed that a trainee is at his strongest in the middle of the week.

Although it may make no difference at all, I would just do it as written.

I moved my HLM days to Tues, Thu, and Sat, just because that's the routine I've been doing for a few years and my body is adapted to that particular work/recovery cycle.

I figure Tues is close enough to Wed to be the middle of the week.

And I don't binge drink vodka on the weekends, so maybe I can pull it in a day from the Russians.

 

[Eyetic]

I keep going with the the standard MHL on Monday / Wed / Friday, and stick an aerobic program on Tuesday/ Thursday / Saturday with a LMH distribution (intensity in this case is just 20% more time).

Will post results next month as soon as I finish the third month following this progression, so far I did 2 times Giant 1.0 with 24 kgs single bell and this month will try the 34 kgs bell with the giant 3.0 program. Can't handle these two bells together and the tinier bell I have is just 16kgs and has a poorly made handle which damage my wrist, so I believe 3.0 its the best solution..otherwise keep going with the 24kgs with the 1.1 program (but I believe it will be very Hypertrophic for me)

 

[Steve Freides]

@Stever Freides mentioned a Mon Medium, Thursday Heavy, Sat. light option as he likes to have the two days before the heavy day and the light day doesn't need much recovery. Sometimes he does heavy days on Saturday as it is his usual competition day.

I find I must be flexible in my schedule. This week was supposed to be BP on Monday, SQ on Wed, and DL on Saturday. Snow, snow, a performance, and a broken organ at my church job all threw a monkey wrench into the works, so BP was 2 day late, SQ was 2 days late, and God willing and the creeks don't rise, DL will be one day late, and they I'll try to be back on schedule for next week.

To expand a little on this mid-week for the most work, my guess is that this refers to volume, and not necessarily intensity, @Geoff Neupert (but that's just a guess on my part since, if I read the research on this, and if I understood it, I've long since forgotten it). Since my DL is my strongest lift, I prefer to have it on Saturdays, even though the volume is less than what I'm doing with SQ and BP.

-S-

 

[watchnerd]

Going conservative and doing 20 minute sessions..

I'm doing 20 min, as well, to keep the density higher / get more conditioning.

Plus it leaves me some gas in the tank to do leg work right after.

 

[guardian7]

Just starting this program this week and I've got a question about strategy. If I think of the 6 rep day as the heavy day, and the other days as light and medium, then should I focus on going all out on the 6 rep day while taking an easier pace on the other two weekly workouts? Does that make sense? I want to make sure that I don't burn out by going full tilt in every workout. I've never run a density based program before.

I would just do as much as you can in good form always according to what is written. Geoff has included autoregulation of rest periods, and even says somewhere in KB strong I think that you just take more rest as it gets more difficult. As others have noted here as well, which I just experienced a couple days ago, the 6 rep day reduces volume as it tilts closer to the RM and you need more time to recover from sets. The 4 rep day is the chance to build volume after getting over the mental and physical hump of the higher reps per set day. I don't really see it as the "light" day anymore in the traditional sense. More a "mentally" light day if that makes sense. Otherwise, we are leaving gains on the table. I CHOSE the Giant for the (medium) hypertrophy, weight control, and work capacity emphasis. I am sitting down too much and don't need a pure strength program right now. The waving of the program lets us hit these multiple goals by varying the intensity/volume parameters it seems. If you need one day more of recovery, you can take it as it is a three day a week program, so you have the opportunity to slot in an extra rest day if Saturday works for you. Holding back on any day will rob you of the volume which is the way that we are measuring our progress in terms of work capacity since we are keeping the load constant. Geoff talks about "Work" in the scientific sense as a key to weight control that is neglected, although that is not the primary focus of the program as it will be affected by dietary habits and other factors. Sorry for the long answer. The simplicity of the programming can kind of make it hard to see how well thought out it is, which is hard to understand until you try it. For example, specifying reps and rest periods would defeat the purpose. There is a big mental element to keep going when you feel you are done. I am curious about my volume between 5 and 4 now. I really like the programming.

 

[guardian7]

Since giant is based off a bell or pair of bells you can press for a solid 10 reps, take note 1.0 only has you go up to 6.. 1.1 goes up to 8.

So with that being said and not giving out too much info, when you can do 80% of your rep max for multiple sets, you'll eventually get to a level where the total volume can reach 5-6 times the volume of your rep max..

It won't be surprising if you end up with a conservative 15 as your new rep max

What do you think accounts for such gains in work capacity? Are we not challenging ourselves enough in terms of high enough load at volume? The volume in ROP is high for example, but the medium load, medium volume of double KB work may have a greater metabolic effect as Geoff argues. Of course, we should alternate programming and goals throughout the year, but I don't think I am going to go back to single KB work except for the snatch and swing. I just have general health goals and am middle aged.

 

[John Grahill]

@guardian7 said it nicely. @Don Fairbanks had a great description of his view of density training. The reps must be "passable" form-wise or words to that effect. Lousy form reps don't cut it.

I do the 30 minute versions for 3 weeks ramping up each week with my peak at 3 weeks. I then reduce volume by 20% for each day and shoot for that number during week 4. Once I get it I quit for the day, whatever time that is.

The heavy volume or "heavy rep" day if you will to me is the same as the other days. Often I get fewer overall reps on these days because the higher reps require more recovery.

I wouldn't over think it as I don't think it really requires too much dissecting, just do the required work for each day and make a bit of progress next week! "Progress" can be the same volume done more quickly, not just more sets!

Admittedly although I'm made "progress" this week over last week, it is much slower going with the 36s than it was with the 32s.

 

[guardian7]

@guardian7 said it nicely. @Don Fairbanks had a great description of his view of density training. The reps must be "passable" form-wise or words to that effect. Lousy form reps don't cut it.

I do the 30 minute versions for 3 weeks ramping up each week with my peak at 3 weeks. I then reduce volume by 20% for each day and shoot for that number during week 4. Once I get it I quit for the day, whatever time that is.

The heavy volume or "heavy rep" day if you will to me is the same as the other days. Often I get fewer overall reps on these days because the higher reps require more recovery.

I wouldn't over think it as I don't think it really requires too much dissecting, just do the required work for each day and make a bit of progress next week! "Progress" can be the same volume done more quickly, not just more sets!

Admittedly although I'm made "progress" this week over last week, it is much slower going with the 36s than it was with the 32s.

Are you running this with 36s? Damn that is impressive.

 

[John Grahill]

@guardian7 thanks for the compliment but being over 200 pounds I don't consider it much of a feat! I'm still attempting to get to and maintain under 200 so we'll see. At 56, it's pretty difficult to maintain strength and have weight under control! I'm trying! (I think I'm 205, haven't checked in a bit but I want to be 195).

As to being strong, this forum is loaded with guys and frankly gals who are far stronger than I am proportionately and in tremendous condition as well!

I will say I'm enjoying this "Giant Journey" I've been on!

 

[Mark Limbaga]

What do you think accounts for such gains in work capacity? Are we not challenging ourselves enough in terms of high enough load at volume? The volume in ROP is high for example, but the medium load, medium volume of double KB work may have a greater metabolic effect as Geoff argues. Of course, we should alternate programming and goals throughout the year, but I don't think I am going to go back to single KB work except for the snatch and swing. I just have general health goals and am middle aged.

The amalgamation of both volume along with the density are contributing factors..

If you enjoy double bell work, I'd definitely say do it more.. Training must be both enjoyable but gives us what we need

 

[Don Fairbanks]

@guardian7 thanks for the compliment but being over 200 pounds I don't consider it much of a feat! I'm still attempting to get to and maintain under 200 so we'll see. At 56, it's pretty difficult to maintain strength and have weight under control! I'm trying! (I think I'm 205, haven't checked in a bit but I want to be 195).

As to being strong, this forum is loaded with guys and frankly gals who are far stronger than I am proportionately and in tremendous condition as well!

I will say I'm enjoying this "Giant Journey" I've been on!

I hear you John, but dbl 36's is dbl 36's.

 

[John Grahill]

but I don't think I am going to go back to single KB work except for the snatch and swing. I just have general health goals and am middle aged.

I really enjoy double kettlebell work, especially combining cleans and overhead work as they are quite effective for hitting on many fitness benefits. I have no real goals like so many here...... I am a "has been" just trying not to explode in middle aged girth!

I agree with Geoff about double kettlebell work being a heavier stimulus systemically and great returns on investment but I wouldn't necessarily give up on single bell work.

Any time I have done a single bell protocol I have had great returns. I remember about 5 years ago doing a bout of the ROP with a 40 and it got my attention! I came out of it pretty thick! Here's what I found, using double bells and doing say a set of 3 reps is about 20 seconds. You basically double that time with a single bell, using 20+seconds left then doing the same on the right side. I got more time under tension per set. In addition I was able to use a "heavier" bell. Around that time I had completed "Strong!" Phases 1 and 2 with the 36s. It meant that "per arm" I could use heavier resistance. I don't know if I'm saying that correctly.

Another "thing" I noticed with single bell c+p's in particular is the mid section gets hammered trying to keep the torso straight.

Truth be told you most likely gain more overall muscle and strength with double kettlebells but that doesn't mean you won't gain any muscle and strength with single bell use.

On my radar is to run through the Giant Series with a single kettlebell at some point. This program has been a major favorite of mine for like 5 months and I have made excellent gains using double bells. I would like to test the "Giant" approach with a single bell.

 

[John Grahill]

I hear you John, but dbl 36's is dbl 36's.

Thanks Don, and I'm definitely feeling them! I just finished week 2 of the 1.0 and I was able to add 1 additional set per workout each day. I'm not going crazy. I'm being patient in my approach. It requires just "that much more" rest between rounds if ya know what I mean. The overall volume numbers are down from the 32s but the effect has been there! As expected it is requiring more recovery but it's been ?.

After the 1.0. I'm going to attempt the 2.0 to use ladders for easing into higher rep sets with these SOB's!

 

[Chris Mills]

After the 1.0. I'm going to attempt the 2.0 to use ladders for easing into higher rep sets with these SOB's!

That's my plan too. I just finished week 3 of 1.0 and increased sets of 6 from 7 to 9 to 11 (and total reps for week from 168 to 196 to 225). Still, multiple sets of 8 with these SOB's seems......, I can't bring myself to think much about it ? .

The simplicity of the programming can kind of make it hard to see how well thought out it is, which is hard to understand until you try it.

I could not agree more with that statement, @guardian7 ! I'm just about through with the 3rd block of Giant (nearly unbroken, though I did ~3-weeks of front squats between the first, which was 1.0 w/ 32s and second, which was 3.0 w/ 36s, blocks to address, successfully, rotator cuff tightness) and I've gone from a ~3RM to what I expect now is probably 11-12RM.

I've got other stuff I'd like to do...., but the draw of the next cycle of this (and the obvious results) is pretty strong (no pun intended ?). I guess at SOME point, I'll have to plateau....., or run out of bigger KBs; or the space for them in my garage...., or money, or shirts that still fit!

If I get to a BW single (which right now would be double 48's, but I'd ideally get my weight down to where it'd be double 44's), I'll stop and move on.... Plenty of runway left either way ..

 

[guardian7]

I really enjoy double kettlebell work, especially combining cleans and overhead work as they are quite effective for hitting on many fitness benefits. I have no real goals like so many here...... I am a "has been" just trying not to explode in middle aged girth!

I agree with Geoff about double kettlebell work being a heavier stimulus systemically and great returns on investment but I wouldn't necessarily give up on single bell work.

Any time I have done a single bell protocol I have had great returns. I remember about 5 years ago doing a bout of the ROP with a 40 and it got my attention! I came out of it pretty thick! Here's what I found, using double bells and doing say a set of 3 reps is about 20 seconds. You basically double that time with a single bell, using 20+seconds left then doing the same on the right side. I got more time under tension per set. In addition I was able to use a "heavier" bell. Around that time I had completed "Strong!" Phases 1 and 2 with the 36s. It meant that "per arm" I could use heavier resistance. I don't know if I'm saying that correctly.

Another "thing" I noticed with single bell c+p's in particular is the mid section gets hammered trying to keep the torso straight.

Truth be told you most likely gain more overall muscle and strength with double kettlebells but that doesn't mean you won't gain any muscle and strength with single bell use.

On my radar is to run through the Giant Series with a single kettlebell at some point. This program has been a major favorite of mine for like 5 months and I have made excellent gains using double bells. I would like to test the "Giant" approach with a single bell.

One thing to consider is for those using smaller bells than you (most people) the metabolic effect of using just one of them is much less even taking bodyweight into account while a single 36 is still a fair amount of weight. A pair of 20s is not far off from a single bell of yours.

 

[John Grahill]

One thing to consider is for those using smaller bells than you (most people) the metabolic effect of using just one of them is much less even taking bodyweight into account while a single 36 is still a fair amount of weight. A pair of 20s is not far off from a single bell of yours.

@guardian7 you certainly may have a point but I think what I was trying to say was that if you going through the program with double 20s, there's a good possibility you'd be able to go through the program with a single 24 and that it wouldn't be a waste of time.

 

[taro]

I started!
Day first. 30minutes. 15sets with 2x20kg.
I felt good.

 

[John Grahill]

Good job @taro I'm sure you'll like the program as much as I do!

 

[guardian7]

I started!
Day first. 30minutes. 15sets with 2x20kg.
I felt good.

Do you mean 75 reps? It seems like you would benefit from a 24 and a 20 or a pair of 24s. What is your rep max cleaning each rep with 2*20?