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Kettlebell GPP for Life and service

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Snowman said:
I still go by the “big pull and press” idea that Pavel brought up quite some time ago. I’m currently working on the one-arm pushup instead of the KB military press for a couple reasons. The first reason is that the OAPU challenges the front of my body more, which I think is a nice contrast to the snatch. The other reason is that, as my snatch improves, my press also improves whether I train it or not. Something about catching heavy weight over and over in the overhead position seems to have considerable carryover to the military press. I also don’t do much in the way of TGU’s anymore, because I think the snatch covers a lot of the same bases with regard to shoulder mobility and stability.

In your case, if you’re inclined to focus on swings for a while instead of snatches, then the TGU or military press would both be very good options, as would the the OAPU, bent press, or push press. You really can't go wrong.

I just recently added the carries back into the mix recently, so I can’t say how useful they are. I’m treating them as an accessory lift, just doing 2 or 3 carries of various kinds each session.

For whatever it's worth, the last page of my log (here) has the last few months of my training. It's pretty repetitive, but it will give you a clear idea of how I do things. As far as A+A work goes, my volume is on the lower end of the spectrum.


It appears that Mr. Motz has been away for a bit...
Click to expand...

Thank you...hmm that take sense to me...
Snatchs whithout TGU I feel these similary....
 
Snowman said:
I still go by the “big pull and press” idea that Pavel brought up quite some time ago. I’m currently working on the one-arm pushup instead of the KB military press for a couple reasons. The first reason is that the OAPU challenges the front of my body more, which I think is a nice contrast to the snatch. The other reason is that, as my snatch improves, my press also improves whether I train it or not. Something about catching heavy weight over and over in the overhead position seems to have considerable carryover to the military press. I also don’t do much in the way of TGU’s anymore, because I think the snatch covers a lot of the same bases with regard to shoulder mobility and stability.

In your case, if you’re inclined to focus on swings for a while instead of snatches, then the TGU or military press would both be very good options, as would the the OAPU, bent press, or push press. You really can't go wrong.

I just recently added the carries back into the mix recently, so I can’t say how useful they are. I’m treating them as an accessory lift, just doing 2 or 3 carries of various kinds each session.

For whatever it's worth, the last page of my log (here) has the last few months of my training. It's pretty repetitive, but it will give you a clear idea of how I do things. As far as A+A work goes, my volume is on the lower end of the spectrum.


It appears that Mr. Motz has been away for a bit...
Click to expand...

And you are train pushup after sets of Snatches ?
 
Patrik Novák said:
And you are train pushup after sets of Snatches ?
Click to expand...
I typically mix everything in with the snatches. For instance, I'll do 4 sets of snatches, then 5 OAPU on each side. Then I'll do 4 more sets of snatches, and grab the kettlebell by the horns and carry it around for a bit. That kind of thing. I think the training effect would probably be the same if I did all the snatches, then did some sets of push ups and carries. I think the key is just to get in the volume while getting enough rest between everything to stay fresh.
 
@Patrik Novák I currently follow all of my snatch sessions with a few sets of military press, I don't see why you couldn't do the same with some pushups.
 
Snowman said:
I typically mix everything in with the snatches. For instance, I'll do 4 sets of snatches, then 5 OAPU on each side. Then I'll do 4 more sets of snatches, and grab the kettlebell by the horns and carry it around for a bit. That kind of thing. I think the training effect would probably be the same if I did all the snatches, then did some sets of push ups and carries. I think the key is just to get in the volume while getting enough rest between everything to stay fresh.
Click to expand...

Yeah I do it similarly...
Thanks
 
Hi so I started after some time again A+A protocol with snatchs so far light 24-28kg And its amazing ...
what kind of transfer to service and work I feel ...

Harald Motz some time ago wrote me that he uses a double clean and push press with 2x44kg 20-30sets for 1-3reps what is also A+A protocol ...
 
Snowman said:
I still go by the “big pull and press” idea that Pavel brought up quite some time ago. I’m currently working on the one-arm pushup instead of the KB military press for a couple reasons. The first reason is that the OAPU challenges the front of my body more, which I think is a nice contrast to the snatch. The other reason is that, as my snatch improves, my press also improves whether I train it or not. Something about catching heavy weight over and over in the overhead position seems to have considerable carryover to the military press. I also don’t do much in the way of TGU’s anymore, because I think the snatch covers a lot of the same bases with regard to shoulder mobility and stability.

In your case, if you’re inclined to focus on swings for a while instead of snatches, then the TGU or military press would both be very good options, as would the the OAPU, bent press, or push press. You really can't go wrong.

I just recently added the carries back into the mix recently, so I can’t say how useful they are. I’m treating them as an accessory lift, just doing 2 or 3 carries of various kinds each session.

For whatever it's worth, the last page of my log (here) has the last few months of my training. It's pretty repetitive, but it will give you a clear idea of how I do things. As far as A+A work goes, my volume is on the lower end of the spectrum.


It appears that Mr. Motz has been away for a bit...
Click to expand...

is better double clean press or single clean press for A + A protocol with your experience...?
Now I have 24 and 32kg and I doing right now A+A protocol with 32kg and soon I
need heavier kettlbell ....
What path should I take?
double clean press with two 32kg or buy 40kg and doing Snatches...
My goal is overall GPP and functional strenght...

Thanks for all your advices and recommendetations....
 
Patrik Novák said:
is better double clean press or single clean press for A + A protocol with your experience...?
Click to expand...
My experience with the C&P is limited, as I don't have doubles. Based on what other people have done, I would say for clean it's better to go with doubles, and to do the clean and jerk instead of the clean and press. Set of 2-3 C&J with double bells seem to work pretty well.

But I don't think you need to upgrade yet.

I'm going to make an assumption, so forgive me if I'm wrong.
I assume you think that you have keep moving up in weight in order to progress your training. This is not completely correct. You can improve by increasing weight, but you will improve just as much by moving the weight faster. My suspicion is that you still have a lot of use left for 32 kilo snatches. The reason I say this is your statement "I didn't believe in getting such a result in such a short time...But I started to feel my elbow and later shoulders..."
If you're elbows and shoulders are hurting, your arm is probably getting yanked down at the bottom of the snatch. This means that you don't have total control of the kettlebell. This means that the kettlebell is still pretty challenging, and that makes me think that you probably aren't moving it very fast yet.

I would advise you to keep snatching (and swinging) the 32 until you can snatch it up and down almost as fast as the 24. Once snatching the 32 is easy, and you can do it without elbow or shoulder pain, then it's time to starting thinking about buying a new kettlebell.
 
Snowman said:
My experience with the C&P is limited, as I don't have doubles. Based on what other people have done, I would say for clean it's better to go with doubles, and to do the clean and jerk instead of the clean and press. Set of 2-3 C&J with double bells seem to work pretty well.

But I don't think you need to upgrade yet.

I'm going to make an assumption, so forgive me if I'm wrong.
I assume you think that you have keep moving up in weight in order to progress your training. This is not completely correct. You can improve by increasing weight, but you will improve just as much by moving the weight faster. My suspicion is that you still have a lot of use left for 32 kilo snatches. The reason I say this is your statement "I didn't believe in getting such a result in such a short time...But I started to feel my elbow and later shoulders..."
If you're elbows and shoulders are hurting, your arm is probably getting yanked down at the bottom of the snatch. This means that you don't have total control of the kettlebell. This means that the kettlebell is still pretty challenging, and that makes me think that you probably aren't moving it very fast yet.

I would advise you to keep snatching (and swinging) the 32 until you can snatch it up and down almost as fast as the 24. Once snatching the 32 is easy, and you can do it without elbow or shoulder pain, then it's time to starting thinking about buying a new kettlebell.
Click to expand...

Yeah thats make sense...
Thank you
after some time I will contact you and write down what progress I have made ...

I do not know what it is but when snatches I feel every training progress and improvement ....
I wonder who came this form of training first and how they discovered it ....?
 
Snowman said:
Someone smarter than you or me! ROFL
Click to expand...

After third weeks of Snatches A+A I feel that is more useful for me superset push-ups with snatches instead of clean and press ....
I currently do extra strict two hamd push up and than rest 1 minute to another sets of snatch
 
Patrik Novák said:
After third weeks of Snatches A+A I feel that is more useful for me superset push-ups with snatches instead of clean and press ....
I currently do extra strict two hamd push up and than rest 1 minute to another sets of snatch
Click to expand...
I think this is a good strategy. It's similar to my approach to OAPU, which worked really well for me. I was surprised how little pushup work I needed to make progress with them when doing snatches. I think the most useful part of the pushups is actually the way they strengthen the abs and other muscles in the front of the body.
 
Snowman said:
I think this is a good strategy. It's similar to my approach to OAPU, which worked really well for me. I was surprised how little pushup work I needed to make progress with them when doing snatches. I think the most useful part of the pushups is actually the way they strengthen the abs and other muscles in the front of the body.
Click to expand...

Are you think about that you switched to Q&D?
What your personal opinion?

For me A+A with push up is best training program choice so far in my life I feel stronger and better like ever before...

But Q&D looks interested.
 
Patrik Novák said:
Are you think about that you switched to Q&D?
What your personal opinion?
Click to expand...
I have not done the Q&D protocols (044 and 033) with any regularity, so I can't really speak with any authority regarding how they work. There is one big thing that stands out to me, though. Volume. The Q&D protocols are much lower volume than normal A+A protocols. That is good because it leaves you with more in the tank for other activities. That is bad because total volume is a critical component of building an aerobic base and a strength base.

To put it another way, Q&D training is a more efficient use of time, but I would bet that the higher volume of traditional A+A work will yield better results in the long-term. If I'm slammed for time and only have 10-20 minutes to train, I'm going to do something akin to the Q&D type of programming. If I have an hour to train, I'm going to do the A+A work that I normally do. I typically have enough time to do A+A work, so that's what I do. As I move into a different season of life, I may start doing more Q&D style training.

If you really want to know, take 4-8 weeks and do Q&D by the book. Or just start mixing in the Q&D training, doing it on the days when you don't have time to get in a good A+A session.
 
Snowman said:
I have not done the Q&D protocols (044 and 033) with any regularity, so I can't really speak with any authority regarding how they work. There is one big thing that stands out to me, though. Volume. The Q&D protocols are much lower volume than normal A+A protocols. That is good because it leaves you with more in the tank for other activities. That is bad because total volume is a critical component of building an aerobic base and a strength base.

To put it another way, Q&D training is a more efficient use of time, but I would bet that the higher volume of traditional A+A work will yield better results in the long-term. If I'm slammed for time and only have 10-20 minutes to train, I'm going to do something akin to the Q&D type of programming. If I have an hour to train, I'm going to do the A+A work that I normally do. I typically have enough time to do A+A work, so that's what I do. As I move into a different season of life, I may start doing more Q&D style training.

If you really want to know, take 4-8 weeks and do Q&D by the book. Or just start mixing in the Q&D training, doing it on the days when you don't have time to get in a good A+A session.
Click to expand...

Thanks
 
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