That’s a really useful post and collection of video clips to learn from Anna, thanks for sharing.
Good point rwleonard, my regular snatches are typically quite ‘swingy’ as I prefer to not tame the arc so much liking a deeper hinge and preswing so it could be that too making me notice how much straighter the line of pull is, as you say...interesting, thanks.FWIW, I think it's the more vertical line of the snatch vs swing. If you "tame the arc" on the way down, you have to add a pretty hefty hike to get the bell back and do a purer hinge. At some point in the weight progression, you just can't do it without casting the bell out further.
Yes, most of the heavy snatchers on Al Ciampa's forum agree that when you go heavy with the snatch, moving the hinge towards more squatty is a good thing. Interesting, isn't it?One thing I notice is most of them are quite ‘squaty’ rather than pure hingey, something I found myself doing instinctively when I tried snatching with a heavier bell but thought was poor form. Perhaps at a certain KB weight to bodyweight ratio adding more squat to the movement becomes more necessary.
I am a huge fan of Harald's work, but no, I haven't learned it from him (or any other instructors). As I mentioned in the article, Lion's Roar snatch is a result of analysis of multiple snatch tests/TSCs, where many gireviks do it naturally. I have just followed Pavel's example and reverse-engineered what they do naturally.
I am extremely grateful for this confluence - it is taking my snatching from strength to strengthI am a huge fan of Harald's work, but no, I haven't learned it from him (or any other instructors). As I mentioned in the article, Lion's Roar snatch is a result of analysis of multiple snatch tests/TSCs, where many gireviks do it naturally. I have just followed Pavel's example and reverse-engineered what they do naturally.
Hey Alexander,Here, swipe for video #4:
I would choose this one as an example for me. Arc is tamed, but no exaggeratedly, there is a clear hinge.
I understand that heavy snatch has a different requirements. I think that the arc radius will define the movement type character - either more hingy or more squatty, as well as certain dominance - quads or hams (same as lats-dominant people love low pull in snatch, and traps/upper back - high pull). True, still, there is unavoidable little squat as weight goes heavy (above 35-40% of bw), as glutes and hams only are insufficient to launch the weight.
Hey Anna,Yes, most of the heavy snatchers on Al Ciampa's forum agree that when you go heavy with the snatch, moving the hinge towards more squatty is a good thing. Interesting, isn't it?
I love how smooth and controlled they can be, even when heavy, quite notable in all of these examples. Calm, smooth, mastery of powerful movement. You can bet that all of these practitioners have done many thousands of kettlebell snatches!
Yes, some similarities for sure, and the heavier it is, the more there are, but also, so many differences! Here's my heavy KB snatch 32kg, and my barbell snatch 85 lb / 38kg... kettlebell uses elastic recoil at the bottom to re-snatch, kettlebell is conducive to reps in a set, kettlebell is one hand, kettlebell starts higher, kettlebell must be caught at the top whereas with barbell, you squat under it. Barbell snatch has first pull, second pull, third pull (under the bar), recovery. I can do the kettlebell snatch much better and am fairly advanced with that weight whereas that's a beginner weight for barbell snatch.... But I've done an estimated 10,000 kettlebell snatches and only a few hundred barbell snatches, so I have a long way to go yet! It's surprising they even have the same name... But I guess the idea is "from bottom position to overhead in one uninterrupted movement" so that criteria does fit both.Hey Anna,
Now that is interesting that others on a different forum are concluding something similar independently of this discussion, there must be something to it!
I suppose if you took the idea of snatching heavier and heavier further, the form would start to get closer and closer to the barbell snatch where obviously the line of pull would need to be more and more vertical, not just because you can’t swing a barbell back between your legs but because when the weight gets really heavy you need to take the most direct route you can. Also, the limiting factor of the grip being challenged more and more to the limit means you cant add preswing momentum and still hold onto it with your legs and hips able to produce much more force than the grip can withstand , hence the wrist wraps for world record deadlifts etc.
Just my thoughts of possible reasoning...
I don't know exactly his height/bw, but I assume he's below 6ft and, accordingly, around 180 lbs. It seems like he snatches 24kg, so hinge is exemplar. However, the guy is very strong nonetheless. I love stuff he does.Hey Alexander,
Thanks for the video example. Yes definitely more hinge in that 4th video heavy snatch. Do you know the height and weight of the guy doing them? He looks big and so I wonder what the relative weight is to his bodyweight and so might be why he can keep more of a hinge rather than squat? Great form example regardless, thanks!
Thanks @John Grahill ! Yes you are right about the snatch being just about an all-inclusive exercise. It sure covers a lot of bases, especially once you move past thinking of it as being all about conditioning, which is how a lot of people come to it (and stay).@Anna C , nice job on the snatches, both the barbell and the Kb.
Watching the ETK video of Pavel snatching brings me back to like 08 or 09 when I must have viewed that particular segment on the snatch about a thousand times.
Frankly, if you get good at the snatch, you could stay in shape for life!