Hypertrophy program and caloric deficit diet

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Abdul-Rasheed

Level 6 Valued Member
If one choose to do hypertrophy program, is it foolishness to follow a caloric deficit diet? What's likely to happen? Thoughts?
 

North Coast Miller

Level 7 Valued Member
Personally if on a restricted diet I wouldn't be using hypertropic strategies. You might come close in terms of how your workout is composed - close to failure, eccentric loading, drop sets etc.

At the least it should result in more definition and lowered body fat % as long as you are adding a higher % of protein to the diet.This effect could be quite pronounced depending on how it is managed and where you're starting from.

Applied properly with a real mind to making size increases I'd think you will reach an "overtrained" state fairly rapidly - all depends on how much a deficit and what sort of rest is available between workouts. The biggest problem with hypertopic regimens and calorie restriction is the large demands on glycogen stores, both after the workout and to maintain intensity with the more rapid pacing and longer duration.

You could likely tolerate it for a while before burning out, but I wouldn't expect to see size increases.
 

pet'

Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,

@Abdul Rasheed
A caloric deficit diet means lower energy level. On the other hand, hypertrophy requires higher reps than pure strength training, and sometimes close to failure. So intensity can be quite high.

When you go for hypertrophy, you need enough energy to overcompensate what you spent during the training.

So, with less calories, you will first lose a lot of fat with this kind of training. Thus, muscle definition will increase. Nonetheless, sooner or later, you will reach an exhaustion point.

Last Fabio Zonin's article on SF blog might help you to build a diet for both strength and volume.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 

Steve Freides

Staff
Senior Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
@Abdul Rasheed, the approach you describe works for some people but not others. I think you have to be particularly motivated to see it through - it's not fun. The most important thing is probably to remember to feed yourself what you need in recovery after your exercise. At least IMHO, that makes a big difference to how you'll feel later on and the next day.

-S-
 

Steve Freides

Staff
Senior Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
You would still need to be in calorie deficit to lose weight - timing is the issue I was raising, but overall, it's a tough thing to do. I have tried it and it was not for me.

-S-
 

Antti

Level 8 Valued Member
I think that this is a highly individual issue with a few viewpoints to consider.

First of all, how are you restricting your calories? Are you a low-carber in ketosis? Vegan? A regular Joe trying to cut down fast food?

It is is also different to lose fat from 30% to 20% than from 12% to 8%.

Lastly, it is easier to gain your first kilogram of muscle than your tenth. How long have you been training, and how focused have you been on hypertrophy?
 

North Coast Miller

Level 7 Valued Member
Thanks @North Coast Miller and @pet' . I was just curious if it will result in good fat loss. I guess not.


I didn't understand the goal.
It will absolutely result in fat loss. The hard part would be preserving your energy and keep muscle loss to a minimum.

Consider even (some) bodybuilders tend to increase volume and decrease intensity as they approach a competition. You could start out with a full blown hypertropic routine and then catch it on the bounce - as you begin to burn out either increase calories or decrease intensity and replace it with volume - the former for more lean size, the latter for more weight loss.

I'll say this, a hypertropic strategy will push your metabolism into overdrive, the longer you can stay with it the greater your fat (weight) loss will be. You will not gain mass without increasing calorie intake.
 

Abdul-Rasheed

Level 6 Valued Member
You would still need to be in calorie deficit to lose weight - timing is the issue I was raising
My goal is not weight loss. My goal is fat loss, measure by reduced waist size.
You mean, for example, eat enough carbs at appropriate time (possibly after the training) to help one recover, yeah?

First of all, how are you restricting your calories? Are you a low-carber in ketosis? Vegan? A regular Joe trying to cut down fast food?
My current diet is no-grain, no-sugar, no-diary, no-fruit with very possibly caloric deficit. Being in deficit, is a pretty good guesstimate. I keep regular food logs.
I was not trying to be in ketosis mode. I eat occasional root vegetables for carbs. Not vegan. I eat red meat, white meat, fish regularly. I also take whey protein several times a week.
I do not weigh every meal till the last ounce. Just eyeball measure. I fast plenty too. Anyways, I like the diet and it is going well so far. I am not craving for anything. I lost ~10lbs in about 4 months. I am not sure how much of it is fat. Hence the original question, since I am hesitant to change it.

It is is also different to lose fat from 30% to 20% than from 12% to 8%.
A few months back, 6 my bod pod test showed that I have 23% body fat. I have another scheduled this Saturday, and it will reveal my progress in terms of fat loss. I will post it in this thread.

Lastly...How long have you been training, and how focused have you been on hypertrophy?
No I haven't been training for hypertrophy. Its mainly strength. swings (couple of times a week). presses (three times a week). TGUs (two times a week). This is what I have been doing last few months. More details is in my training log. I have been training for just over two years now. Mostly sedentary life before that.

So why am I asking this question? I feel like my body composition did not change. It is just a feel. The bod pod test this weekend will reveal more, though. So I am just contemplating. If the results is poor, I will conclude that things aren't working as it is, and that I will have to change up the routine.

I didn't understand the goal.
I wasn't clear. The above should shed more light into my background.

You could start out with a full blown hypertropic routine and then catch it on the bounce - as you begin to burn out either increase calories or decrease intensity and replace it with volume - the former for more lean size, the latter for more weight loss.
Thanks, i will save this advice.

@pet'
Thanks! I seen those two awesome back to back articles from Fabio. I like the diet, and still in the planning stage to incorporate the scoring/point system. As for training, I am investigating., and Total Tension Complex caught my interest.
 
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Antti

Level 8 Valued Member
Since you have had some extra fat, and haven't trained for hypertrophy that much, I don't see it impossible to gain muscle mass on your diet, which seems very reasonable.

You should see your progress in the measurements, maybe adjust accordingly.

For hypertrophy, I would recommend a program based on heavy squats and deadlifts.
 

ali

Level 6 Valued Member
As for training, I am investigating. Total Tension Complex caught my interest.

good luck with a deficit!! Haha.......
The Total Tension Complex comes complete with a Total Food Frenzy.
Upto undertaking that particular monster I was munching away merrily to the tune of a randomised IF with a big meal later on in the day and had been doing so for a while. Well that sorted that one out, hallucinations and extra sensory awareness of smells leading me to anything mildly edible. I'm lean anyway and didn't want to deny my body's signals to gorge, so I just did that. I dunno if the TTC is a hypertrophy programme per se or not. I'd reckon you'd do well just eating to the messages you get from your body rather than not and just eat if you are hungry and a hungry you will be. Your metabolism will go on fire, you'll need to feed the beast.
 

Abdul-Rasheed

Level 6 Valued Member
I'd reckon you'd do well just eating to the messages you get from your body rather than not and just eat if you are hungry and a hungry you will be. Your metabolism will go on fire, you'll need to feed the beast.
Sure, I would do this, if I have to. I will make a decision to go hypertrophy (and eating to match it) or not after the body fat test result, this weekend.
 

Kettlebelephant

Level 6 Valued Member
Buy a lot of veggies and meat. Then eat whenever your body tells you to and stop when you feel full. Drink a lot of water.
I guarantee that even if you don't count calories, after a couple of weeks with this and a hypertrophy program, you'll have the desired result -> body recomposition (lost fat, gained some muscle -> pants size down)
 

Kettlebelephant

Level 6 Valued Member
Yeah. I still should be able to stay paleo and no grains, and eat a lot, correct? If I can, that's the route I will go.
Yes.
It's hard to overeat with this. In my experience overeating comes from eating a lot of carbs or junk food. I'm not generally suggesting low-carb diets, but it's really hard to overeat on a diet consisting of meat, fish, lots of veggies and some things like avocado & nuts for some added fat, but it's still enough to nourish your body with all it needs to be healthy and grow some muscle.
 
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pet'

Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,

@Abdul Rasheed
Yeah. I still should be able to stay paleo and no grains, and eat a lot, correct?
In a paleo diet, grains are authorized.

Basically, paleo "forbides"
=> dairy (some folks nonethless allow goat cheese),
=> beans
=> pasta, rices, bread, oatmeal
=> junk food
=> alcohol

This is globally gluten free actually

Authorized:
=> everything else (meat, fish, oil (coconut, olive, etc...), fruits and veggies)

Kind regards,

Pet'
 

Abdul-Rasheed

Level 6 Valued Member
@pet' Yeah good point, it is not paleo. I was avoiding grains and fruits on top of what paleo forbids. I plan to start eating them sooner or later.
 

Kettlebelephant

Level 6 Valued Member
You're also allowed to consume dairy if you can handle it.
God, I would feel miserable if you'd take away my milk and cheese...:eek::D
 
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