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Kettlebell Injuries on S&S

Pavel,

Thank you for taking my comments in the spirit of trying to help and not as criticism.

Re: 1) the book said daily but that doesn't mean everyone has to do that or start there.

Re: 2) if you had to roll back it was likely too much too soon.

Re: 3) To quote Mike Boyle in regards to pain—"any answer other than no is a yes."
So doesn't hurt specifically bad = it hurts.

I'm thrilled to hear that there have been improvements but the fact that the AC and elbow are "in the way" still highlights the pain issue.

Re: 4) The swing should look smooth and athletic.

For your swings where you said they are a 7-8—dial it down to a 3.

For your swings where you said they are a 5-6—dial it down to a 2.

All of your swings look like they are an 11 on the scale of 1 to 10.
 
Brett, I have just fineshed reading your article about the rehab you had to take with your knee.
I appreciate a lot all your comments.
I have suspected that you will tell me to step back.
More to that - I know that I should.
Thanks a lot.
 
Brett Jones said:
Its a "bitter pill" and it doesn't mean stop but it does mean re-evaluate and adjust accordingly.
Click to expand...
Brett, I did my best to take your advice.
I have read your article about athletic hinge, I have watched you performing the lifts from your interviews.
Also, I have payed attention to your advice about the getup (hand position, smooth transactions and so on).
Thanks once again for the guidance.

If you by any chance will take a look at my latest video's, maybe you can tell if I am on the right track.
If not - I will take your advice further to my SFG instructor next time I have a session.

3 updated video's
On a get-up with 24 I was aiming for smooth transitions, control and pain free range of motion.
On my stop-and-go swings I was trying to get a consistent athletic hinge, and to accelerate the bell without extra tension.

Thanks for all the help.
 
Absolutely headed the right direction—well done!

Where would you rate those swings on the one to 10 scale?
 
Brett Jones said:
Absolutely headed the right direction—well done!

Where would you rate those swings on the one to 10 scale?
Click to expand...
4, because I am not always consistent with my balance and lower back extension. I need no chalk, and I pass the talk test as soon as I park the bell.
However, a 16 kg bell would be too light for 2 hands. This all was 24 kg.
I plan to practice 1H swings with 16kg.

Much appreciated.

If this is a good direction - I will proceed as prescribed, and won't bother you any more.
 
I think that weight looks good and you can actually dial it down a notch or two lower (I know that sounds like weird advice).

Do keep me posted and we would hopefully see you feeling better and recovering well.
 
An update. I had an assessment on my right AC joint. It was dismissed as an overuse and bicep tendon irritation. No separation or something like that. On top of that I have a recent peck major, clavicular, pain. (I wonder where did this one come from).
Funny enough, none of this injuries prevent me from doing a one arm pushup :).

I have received corrective exercises for (srprise-surprise) packing the shoulder:
1. Press angel with the elastic band fixed in front.
2. Something like a bend-over row, with elastic in front, focusing on the end of the movement.
3. A carry with the kettlebell, holding it by an elastic bend. Make a step, stabilize and prevent arm movement.
4. A band pull through with one hand, mimicking the swing, to focus on packing the shoulder in the swing.
5. An advice to work with a lighter weight. Which is very good - there was no advice for a layoff.

On a turkish getup, Brett has a video about palm up position in a getup (I think from Pavel Macek originally). This is an amazing tip - saves the supinator and elbow tendon, and allows to pull back with the lat. A golden tip. Further - arm rotation before "to the hand" reduces the stress on the elbow.

So, the plan is to take a lay off for a week, then drop the frequency to 3 days a week, restart S&S with 16kg on this frequency, and do corrective stuff on the rest days.
And even on 16 kg I would mind the stop signs: the pain. I will cut the workout on pain. Eventually, I will build it up to 10 getups and 100 swings. All with as much rest as needed.
 
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So, I have closed the issue off by visiting my GP.
What I have at the moment is tendon problem.
I did have AC separation about 10-12 years ago doing judo.
If that is the case, my pec minor and some other small stuff would be compensating.
This explains why I had pec minor pain on the right side.

So, probably, I should be careful with one hand swings and cleans. And get-ups.
The money for me is (probably) in 2H swings, squats and presses.
 
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Pavel.Kosenkov said:
I am still working on my getups and swings on my variety day.
I would really appreciate a form check, if it is possible.
videos
Click to expand...
These look fine, but light. I see you are modifying the weight in use due to some issues. Can you do what is in the videos pain-free, currently? If so, perhaps you can work back up in weight, and monitor symptoms.
 
Anna C said:
These look fine, but light. I see you are modifying the weight in use due to some issues. Can you do what is in the videos pain-free, currently? If so, perhaps you can work back up in weight, and monitor symptoms.
Click to expand...
Not yet, but I am on my way there. Thank you for looking.
 
I have been working further on:
1. Removing the stress from the top of the shoulder, using the lat, doing smooth transitions on my get-ups.
2. 1H swings - trying to relax the arm, engage the shoulder and connect it to my body with my lat. Searching for upper arm to body connection on the way down.

I would appreciate another form check - if I get lucky.
Swing video's are slo-mo, half speed.

Video's
 
Pavel.Kosenkov said:
I have been working further on:
1. Removing the stress from the top of the shoulder, using the lat, doing smooth transitions on my get-ups.
2. 1H swings - trying to relax the arm, engage the shoulder and connect it to my body with my lat. Searching for upper arm to body connection on the way down.

I would appreciate another form check - if I get lucky.
Swing video's are slo-mo, half speed.

Video's
Click to expand...
Overall, your swings look good to me.

A few things I notice:
--It looks like you are a little impatient in initiating the hip drive before the backswing fully completes. A sign of this is the bell flipping up a little as you initiate the upswing. Try waiting a beat longer, almost to the point where the bell would passively start swinging forward on its own, before starting your hip drive. If the bell is still moving backward when you start your hip drive, some of your hip power is going into braking and reversing the backward momentum of the bell. You want all your hip drive to go into powering the bell forward.
--It looks like you are pulling the bell out of the hole with your arm. I use the cue "Arm down!" as I initiate the upswing and extend my hips to remind me to keep my arm connected to my torso and not pull with the arm. Then as your hips fully extend, let the momentum of the bell carry your arm away from your body into the float.
--Personally, I like to see a straight arm at the top. You can keep your lat engaged and your shoulder in good position without restricting the upper arm from rising with the bell and keeping the arm long and straight.
 
Pavel.Kosenkov said:
An update. I had an assessment on my right AC joint. It was dismissed as an overuse and bicep tendon irritation. No separation or something like that. On top of that I have a recent peck major, clavicular, pain. (I wonder where did this one come from).
Funny enough, none of this injuries prevent me from doing a one arm pushup :).

I have received corrective exercises for (srprise-surprise) packing the shoulder:
1. Press angel with the elastic band fixed in front.
2. Something like a bend-over row, with elastic in front, focusing on the end of the movement.
3. A carry with the kettlebell, holding it by an elastic bend. Make a step, stabilize and prevent arm movement.
4. A band pull through with one hand, mimicking the swing, to focus on packing the shoulder in the swing.
5. An advice to work with a lighter weight. Which is very good - there was no advice for a layoff.

On a turkish getup, Brett has a video about palm up position in a getup (I think from Pavel Macek originally). This is an amazing tip - saves the supinator and elbow tendon, and allows to pull back with the lat. A golden tip. Further - arm rotation before "to the hand" reduces the stress on the elbow.

So, the plan is to take a lay off for a week, then drop the frequency to 3 days a week, restart S&S with 16kg on this frequency, and do corrective stuff on the rest days.
And even on 16 kg I would mind the stop signs: the pain. I will cut the workout on pain. Eventually, I will build it up to 10 getups and 100 swings. All with as much rest as needed.
Click to expand...

Hi; which video of Brett Jones are you referring to? It might be helpful to me as well. Thanks in advance. Best; Ege
 
I will revive the thread.
After a while, I am at swings and getups again. I do not have re-injury yet, but my sgoulde around my AC begins to nag.
It turns out that I did have AC separation there, probably grade 3 ( from my GP words), but long ago.
Its not a 2 hand swing that provokes.
I was wondering - would it be smart to exclude a 1H swing from S&S practice for a while?
In this case - if it worse, I would know that it is probably the TGU to blame. If not - I will try to reintroduce 1H swing in a month.
In general - did anyone had AC issues, or shoulder (top, top-front) issues from 1H swings?
 
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