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Kettlebell Kettlebell STRONG (Neupert)

JudoG

Level 2 Valued Member
Another fan of KB Strong course here! The video cues around grip and feet placement made a huge difference for me; cleans just felt so much easier when not pre-loading my shoulders/legs.

A quick question on progression - I've just finished phases 1 and 2 (short course) with a pair of 24s for C&Ps and looking to stay with double-KBs, with the eventual aim of being able to work with double 32s (kudos to bgn, I'd settle for be able to do this programme with 32s, let alone 36s!). My rep max went from around 6/7 at the start of the programme to 11 by the end of phase 2, so definitely filing this in my 'programmes that work' folder.

I can't press double-32s yet and don't own a pair of 28s (with no chance of buying KBs in the UK for the moment!), so was wondering about running phases 1 and 2 with double-32s for the Front Squat - was interested by what Geoff says on the course about this being the base exercise for double-KB work and wondered whether this was a good way to build up to C+P doubles with this weight, or whether I'd be better-off doing higher rep work with C+Ps, like the Giant with double 24s (or some other programme)?
 

bgn

Level 5 Valued Member
Workout 6 done and it is time for steak and rice and beans and cheesecake and ice-creams (dont judge me). it took three workouts but I'm capable of finding nice rhythm on my second rep. For me everything boils down to head and neck placement. When I was keeping my neck 'neutral' I was leaking and not as stable when I was 'reversing' to start second clean. Now, if i keep looking 'up' I'm tight and go 'back'. All in all I love this program so far. 6 workouts in and my knees don't have any objections.

Have a great weekend.
 

bgn

Level 5 Valued Member
Slow and steady is old dependable....the short course is for 25 year olds with magical recovery. Of course, YMMV.
John and You are probably right. I understand that doubling the volume in less than a month would be a challenge. compared to extra 11 weeks to on Slow and Steady to arrive at same volume within one workout. Although I am not 25 years old (far from it) I have ability to sleep, eat properly and not stress too much about things. I'm supplementing my diet with what works for me.

If on Workout 24 I press >9 really nice reps then I believe I'd be in perfect position to follow Short Course and volume increase won't be my biggest concern (extra rest between sets and eat like a horse).

Bigger concern, after Short Course, would be Third Part of the program with conditioning. I see myself crashing/failing during that segment of the program, as volume and reduction of rest periods by (200%-300%) would mean probably that I would start compromising and that would translate in poor quality of reps and diminished returns from the program.

Oh well....we will see....no harm in trying something challenging and I haven't challenge myself in years so let us see how long can I keep my sh1t together.
 

bgn

Level 5 Valued Member
Workout #7 - very easy day. Just singles. Becomes quite boring but I can feel the difference in speed of clean compared to Workout #1.

Book was stating not to expect muscle growth but I can clearly see the diff in shoulders, upper back, traps, forearms and arms. I kid you not, i will defo post before and after pics if someone is interested in such thing and maybe videos of test after each phase.

So far find it very enjoyable - gentle warm up, 2 small sets with double 24 kg, 1 set of 3 reps with 32 kgs and then we go. All work is laid out and done for me so just follow it as prescribed. Good thing is that program requires biggest exercise there is (C&P) so appetite to add some bs is minimal.

I knew my body responds better to lower reps but looking at how it reacts to singles and doubles is quite puzzling. Guess 1 or 2 properly executed reps mean more than set of 8-12 crappy reps that do not 'test' you.

"Diet" still stays clean but not restricting anything.

Breakfast was 4 eggs, 2 turkey sausages, tomato, spinach and onion salad and bagel and glass of milk.
Post workout I had steak, rice, beans, avocado salad and glass of milk and banana.
Dinner will be taco sardines with reminder of lunch salad.

Usual supplements: Omega 3, Vit D, Vit C, Magnesium, Zinc, B Complex, joint support stuff....and beer :D
 

John Grahill

Level 7 Valued Member
Book was stating not to expect muscle growth but I can clearly see the diff in shoulders, upper back, traps, forearms and arms. I kid you not, i will defo post before and after pics if someone is interested in such thing and maybe videos of test
@bgn I certainly may have missed it but I don't recall the book stating there'd be no muscle gain in phase 1......I think it said something to the effect of "not too much but your shirts won't look like they're hanging on hangers" or words to that effect. Not surprised at the body composition improvement you experienced at all. The heavy work elicits a hormonal response in your body. Just wait until you finish phase 2. ?
 

bgn

Level 5 Valued Member
@bgn I certainly may have missed it but I don't recall the book stating there'd be no muscle gain in phase 1......I think it said something to the effect of "not too much but your shirts won't look like they're hanging on hangers" or words to that effect. Not surprised at the body composition improvement you experienced at all. The heavy work elicits a hormonal response in your body. Just wait until you finish phase 2. ?
Hi,
See if interpreted “not too much but your shirts won't look like they're hanging on hangers" as “don’t get your hopes up” but it already exceeded my expectations. Perhaps it is lower volume, minimalist approach, lack of messing around with other things or trying to dial in with everything else that helps me progress but I’d never expected such amazing results so early.
Said that, workout 8 happened today and completely no problems. Getting a lot better when it comes to Cleans. Whole workout was done in less than 20 minutes.
Abs are getting stronger as well it is easier for me to stay tight while pulling.
 

DrFierce

Level 5 Valued Member
Question for @John Grahill or @Geoff Neupert: How do you contrast Kettlebell strong and Giant 3.0? Obviously I understand that the programs are variations on a theme (have both and am going through Giant 1.1 on to 1.2 next week, after which I anticipate going up a weight with a new 5 RM. Just trying to figure out which to do next, and understanding how they contrast.
 

John Grahill

Level 7 Valued Member
Question for @John Grahill or @Geoff Neupert: How do you contrast Kettlebell strong and Giant 3.0? Obviously I understand that the programs are variations on a theme (have both and am going through Giant 1.1 on to 1.2 next week, after which I anticipate going up a weight with a new 5 RM. Just trying to figure out which to do next, and understanding how they contrast.
Hi @DrFierce I don't know if it's the official way to differentiate the two programs but here's my take as someone who has done Strong. (Haven't done the 3.0 Giant.....yet!)

I kind of view Strong as the program to start with if you have a 4 or 5 RM that is not a "comfortable " 4 or 5 RM. The volume starts slowly building up and each workout has a prescribed number of work sets to do.

I would probably use The Giant 3.0 if I was using a "comfortable" 5 rep max....meaning a rep or 2 in the tank as it is a density protocol wherein you try to add sets each week. With a " difficult to maintain form 5 RM" that's inviting problems in my mind.

Just how I'd do it .
 

DrFierce

Level 5 Valued Member
Hi @DrFierce I don't know if it's the official way to differentiate the two programs but here's my take as someone who has done Strong. (Haven't done the 3.0 Giant.....yet!)

I kind of view Strong as the program to start with if you have a 4 or 5 RM that is not a "comfortable " 4 or 5 RM. The volume starts slowly building up and each workout has a prescribed number of work sets to do.

I would probably use The Giant 3.0 if I was using a "comfortable" 5 rep max....meaning a rep or 2 in the tank as it is a density protocol wherein you try to add sets each week. With a " difficult to maintain form 5 RM" that's inviting problems in my mind.

Just how I'd do it .
Thanks! This is very useful. Will be testing soon.
 

Phindborg

First Post
Hi @DrFierce I don't know if it's the official way to differentiate the two programs but here's my take as someone who has done Strong. (Haven't done the 3.0 Giant.....yet!)

I kind of view Strong as the program to start with if you have a 4 or 5 RM that is not a "comfortable " 4 or 5 RM. The volume starts slowly building up and each workout has a prescribed number of work sets to do.

I would probably use The Giant 3.0 if I was using a "comfortable" 5 rep max....meaning a rep or 2 in the tank as it is a density protocol wherein you try to add sets each week. With a " difficult to maintain form 5 RM" that's inviting problems in my mind.

Just how I'd do it .
Thank you John. I registered a user just to tell you that this was very helpful.
 

bgn

Level 5 Valued Member
Workout 9 done. I’m left with one more workout (#11) that consists of singles and I believe I’ll miss singles. Never done them before this program and see tremendous value. If only I weren’t such a coward 20 years ago and do singles on regular basis......one can dream.

Tremendous value. I’m definitely growing but in a different way. No pump to say so, seems that I’m getting “denser” for lack of better term and my forearms start to look awesome!

Another weird thing, did two hours of honest physical work after my workout and then ate and ate and ate and ate and 10 hrs later still not crashing. Back few weeks ago same thing would make me tired and I would have some strategic naps but today was a breeze.

anyways - have a great evening and weekend!
 

Erik W

Level 4 Valued Member
Okay; I felt good today, so I tested my RM with a pair of 24s. I got a tough 7 reps: 5 was noticeable, 6 was hard, and 7 was very hard.

About a half hour later, I tested with a pair of 28s. I got one good rep and stopped while attempting the second rep.

I've been thinking about switching to Strong! for a season. I just feel like a change of pace. For recent background, I just completed The Giant 1.0, 1.1, and 1.2 with a pair of 20s. The question I have is this: Do you think that a very hard 7RM is heavy enough to use for this program?

I'm honestly thinking about just trying it to find out. Phase 1 is only 8 weeks, so I'll know when I test the RM again. This could be a useful data point for all of us.
 
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Dayz

Level 6 Valued Member
Okay; I felt good today, so I tested my RM with a pair of 24s. I got a tough 7 reps: 5 was noticeable, 6 was hard, and 7 was very hard.

About a half hour later, I tested with a pair of 28s. I got one good rep and stopped while attempting the second rep.

I've been thinking about switching to Strong! for a season. I just feel like a change of pace. For recent background, I just completed The Giant 1.0, 1.1, and 1.2 with a pair of 20s. The question I have is this: Do you think that a very hard 7RM is heavy enough to use for this program?

I'm honestly thinking about just trying it to find out. Phase 1 is only 8 weeks, so I'll know when I test the RM again. This could be a useful data point for all of us.
I can't comment at all about Strong because I haven't done it. But one thing I've found: my ability to handle a KB or pair of KBs always improves if I just use them frequently (e.g 3x per week like on Strong). It doesn't matter what RM they are or how many reps in doing (within reason). If the tension and intent are high I'll get stronger, whether I'm using a 3rm, 6rm, 12rm etc
 

Geoff Neupert

Level 7 Valued Member
Beast Tamer
Question for @John Grahill or @Geoff Neupert: How do you contrast Kettlebell strong and Giant 3.0? Obviously I understand that the programs are variations on a theme (have both and am going through Giant 1.1 on to 1.2 next week, after which I anticipate going up a weight with a new 5 RM. Just trying to figure out which to do next, and understanding how they contrast.
Phase 1 of "Strong!" is very "prescriptive" - this many sets, reps and rest. No autoregulation.

3.0: The reps are specified. The rest is autoregulated. More open to an individual's background, which is why we see so much variation in volume among individuals doing THE GIANT programs.

Not sure if that answers your question...?
 

barrak

Level 6 Valued Member
I can't comment at all about Strong because I haven't done it. But one thing I've found: my ability to handle a KB or pair of KBs always improves if I just use them frequently (e.g 3x per week like on Strong). It doesn't matter what RM they are or how many reps in doing (within reason). If the tension and intent are high I'll get stronger, whether I'm using a 3rm, 6rm, 12rm etc
IN ROTK book, Pavel relates that Kenneth Jay would mix in a light press day once a week where he uses 50% of his RM and does 100-200 reps in sets of 5!
 

John Grahill

Level 7 Valued Member
I can't comment at all about Strong because I haven't done it. But one thing I've found: my ability to handle a KB or pair of KBs always improves if I just use them frequently (e.g 3x per week like on Strong). It doesn't matter what RM they are or how many reps in doing (within reason). If the tension and intent are high I'll get stronger, whether I'm using a 3rm, 6rm, 12rm etc
I agree with Dayz. The basic Monday/Wednesday/Friday template has always worked best for me and yielded the most gains.
 

John Grahill

Level 7 Valued Member
Okay; I felt good today, so I tested my RM with a pair of 24s. I got a tough 7 reps: 5 was noticeable, 6 was hard, and 7 was very hard.

About a half hour later, I tested with a pair of 28s. I got one good rep and stopped while attempting the second rep.

I've been thinking about switching to Strong! for a season. I just feel like a change of pace. For recent background, I just completed The Giant 1.0, 1.1, and 1.2 with a pair of 20s. The question I have is this: Do you think that a very hard 7RM is heavy enough to use for this program?

I'm honestly thinking about just trying it to find out. Phase 1 is only 8 weeks, so I'll know when I test the RM again. This could be a useful data point for all of us.
Yes, I'd use the 24s. From the description you give they are certainly a difficult 5 RM for the purposes of Strong. 6 and 7 were really hard, well most likely 5 reps were tough too so I think you'll certainly benefit from Strong's phase

If you think because you're using a 6 RM instead of a 4 or 5 RM that you are wasting your time, I say think again. Use the time in phase 1 to really refine your technique and focus on getting all the cues from the book and video. Then after phase 1, you can either jump on to phase 2 or maybe use the Giant protocols. I say go for it.
 
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