Barbell Knee Sleeves vs. Knee Wraps - observations/preference?

[Boris Bachmann]

Curious to hear from those among us who use them - what is/are your preference between/observations of using knee wraps vs. sleeves for "heavy" barbell squatting?

I realize that brand and fit can make all the difference when it comes to supportive equipment and would like to hear your thoughts.

I have a pair of sleeves from elitefts that I don't hate, but probably add exactly zero lbs to my lift. And that's fine, it's mostly a warmth and placebo boost for me anyway and I've never gotten a lot from knee wraps either. I also have an old pair of Inzer knee wraps that I like and probably, I'm guessing, add 10lb to my squat.

 

[BJJ Shawn]

I have zero experience, but wanted to add on a question. Is there supposed to be any benefit to either if you DON’T have dodgy knees? I understand what a belt can do for you, but I always saw knee wraps/sleeves as a help for those with bad knees and/or to help prevent knee problems, I had no idea they supposedly aid in lifting more. Is that actually the goal with them?

 

[Boris Bachmann]

I have zero experience, but wanted to add on a question. Is there supposed to be any benefit to either if you DON’T have dodgy knees?

Benefit to either... either what?

I understand what a belt can do for you, but I always saw knee wraps/sleeves as a help for those with bad knees and/or to help prevent knee problems,

Yes.

I had no idea they supposedly aid in lifting more. Is that actually the goal with them?

A goal for some, but certainly not THE goal for me(tho a side-benefit).

 

[silveraw]

I’ve only used sleeves for my elbows for overhead work.

I don’t see too many people using sleeves for squats unless they have bum knees. It’s mostly wraps for heavy lifting. Both my coaches use them for powerlifting. One trains in them all the time the other only a few weeks before a powerlifting meet.

I wonder if the “old” part of your wraps might be some of the lack of extra oomph.

 

[BJJ Shawn]

Benefit to either... either what?

Either knee sleeves or knee wraps

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

I have a pair of sleeves from elitefts that I don't hate, but probably add exactly zero lbs to my lift. And that's fine, it's mostly a warmth and placebo boost for me

Knee Sleeves
1) Maintaining Heat

One of the main beneifts is the maintain warmpth in knee area from the Neoprene Knee Sleeve as well as increasing blood flow.

Research shows that maintaining an elevated temperature in the muscle being train optimizes strength.

2) Providing Support

Knee Sleeves also provide some support and proprioceptor feed back with the Squat; "... gives detailed and continuous information about the position of the limbs..." Source: Mechanoreceptors Specialized for Proprioception - Neuroscience - NCBI Bookshelf

3) Tight Knee Sleeves
I have the SBD Knee Band Sleeves, which is a great Knee Sleeve.

In purchasing the SBD Knee Bands Sleeves, one of the recommendation was to purchase one size smaller that your regular size. This sligthly increased driving out of the hole. However, not to the extent Knee Wrap do.
The smaller size elicits a "Compression Effect". Reseach show that "Compression Garments" can slightly increase performance.

lso have an old pair of Inzer knee wraps that I like and probably, I'm guessing, add 10lb to my squat.

Knee Wraps

This provide greater support and drive out of the hole if you knees are wrapped tight enough.

As you know, tightly wrapping th e knees make it harder in bending the leg. The Knee Wrap provide a "Spring Effect" when you slightly recoil (slightly bounce) out of the hole.

The proper Knee Wrap tightness will be uncomfortable. That because they restrict blood flow back to the heart (Venous Blood Flow).

Ironically, Venous Blood Flow occurs with Bodybuilding Moderate to High Repetition Sets and with KAAT (Occlusion Strength Training).

Neoprene Elbow Sleeves and Waist Bands

Like Neoprene Knee Sleeves, Neoprene Ebow Sleeves and and Neoprene Waist Band increase and maintain temperature in the working muscles and provide some support.

To reiterate, data show that increasing and maintain temperature when training elicits a greater strength training effect.

Passive Warm Ups

Neoprene Knee Sleeves, Elbow Sleeves, Waist Bands and Warm Up Garments like...

Kutting Weight
Neoprene Sauna Suits & Vests | Cut Weight & Fat

They provide a Passive Warm Up that you are able to maintain a greater degree of heat in the working muscles as well an increase in Body Temperture.

Information on on the importance of training with a higher Body Temperature is in several post on Circadian Rhythm on the StrongFirst site .

Kutting Weight Neoprene Warm Up is one of the best training investment I made.

Warm-Up Strategies for Sport and Exercise: Mechanisms and Applications https://www.researchgate.net/publication/282153814_Warm-Up_Strategies_for_Sport_and_Exercise_Mechanisms_and_Applicatio

Passive warm-up can increase body temperature without depleting energy substrate stores, ...
The impact of passive heat maintenance strategies between an active warm-up and performance: a systematic review and meta-analysis
The impact of passive heat maintenance strategies between an active warm-up and performance: a systematic review and meta-analysis - BMC Sports Science, Medicine and Rehabilitation

Passive heating strategies used between an active warm-up and exercise, significantly increased peak power output in all studies

The use of a heat maintenance device during the transition period following an active warm-up, and prior to competition, has the capacity to yield performance enhancing benefits akin to those of an active warm-up.
Passive heating devices have been shown to reduce the decline in muscle temperature, and therefore have been found to enhance PPO (Peak Power Output) during exercise.

Passive Heating Devices

Neoprene Knee, Elbow, Waist and Warm Suite fall into the category of "Passive Heating Devices".

Powerlifting Knee Sleeves

Powerlifting Knee Sleeves | PowerliftingToWin

In this article, the top four knee sleeves are compared: Titan, Tommy Kono, Rehband, and SBDs. The pros and cons are covered and recommendations are made.

www.powerliftingtowin.com

This is a great review of the various types of Neoprene Knee Sleeves.

 

[Boris Bachmann]

I don’t see too many people using sleeves for squats unless they have bum knees. It’s mostly wraps for heavy lifting. Both my coaches use them for powerlifting. One trains in them all the time the other only a few weeks before a powerlifting meet.

I see a lot of people squatting "raw" wearing sleeves in meets these days (at least on YouTube).

I wonder if the “old” part of your wraps might be some of the lack of extra oomph.

I've never really gotten a lot of pop from wraps - probably because I don't wear them tight tight.

 

[ShawnM]

I don't squat heavy often but when I do I use SBD knee sleeves. Super supportive! I have horrible knees so if I squat heavy I put them on after several sets of bodyweight squats and use them throughout my session. Save me a ton of pain but you have to watch which ones you go with. A generic sleeve might be all you need, mine were expensive and I really can only squat or deadlift in them, they are a bit too restrictive for anything else.

 

[Boris Bachmann]

I don't squat heavy often but when I do I use SBD knee sleeves. Super supportive! I have horrible knees so if I squat heavy I put them on after several sets of bodyweight squats and use them throughout my session. Save me a ton of pain but you have to watch which ones you go with. A generic sleeve might be all you need, mine were expensive and I really can only squat or deadlift in them, they are a bit too restrictive for anything else.

Do you leave them on for your whole session? Are yours a neoprene material? (7mm or 5mm?)

Maybe it's just getting used to them, or it's the fit, or it's the brand/material, but I've never been able to just leave sleeves on unless they were loose and then I never felt they did a thing.

 

[Antti]

I’ve only used sleeves for my elbows for overhead work.

I don’t see too many people using sleeves for squats unless they have bum knees. It’s mostly wraps for heavy lifting. Both my coaches use them for powerlifting. One trains in them all the time the other only a few weeks before a powerlifting meet.

I wonder if the “old” part of your wraps might be some of the lack of extra oomph.

I see a lot of people squatting "raw" wearing sleeves in meets these days (at least on YouTube).
I've never really gotten a lot of pop from wraps - probably because I don't wear them tight tight.

The IPF does raw/classic only with sleeves. Wraps for single ply.

 

[silveraw]

The IPF does raw/classic only with sleeves. Wraps for single ply.

Yeah NASA does retro which allows sleeves and unequipped that allows wraps. Then the equipped division

 

[ShawnM]

Do you leave them on for your whole session? Are yours a neoprene material? (7mm or 5mm?)

Maybe it's just getting used to them, or it's the fit, or it's the brand/material, but I've never been able to just leave sleeves on unless they were loose and then I never felt they did a thing.

They are 10mm and I keep them on the entire time.

 

[renegadenate]

I have terrible arthritis in both knees that has made all squatting and lunging painful despite PT, massage, mobility warm-ups, etc.

I picked up a pair of MAVA 7mm knee sleeves last year, and they have been the BEST ones I've ever had and used (and I have a basket full of different ones).

These are currently the only way I can get through leg workouts with Goblet Squats, DKFS, Bulgarian Split Squats, Lunges, and Split Squats (I stopped barbell squatting in 2013).

They are thick and provide great support, keep my knees warm, and greatly reduce pain.

Mava Sports Pair of Knee Compression Sleeves Neoprene 7mm for Men & Women for Cross Training WOD, Squats, Gym Workout, Powerlifting, Weightlifting https://a.co/d/e5nEOeE

 

[Steve Freides]

Some federations used to allow knee wraps for raw and preserved that as "Classic Raw" but the regular Raw allows sleeves but not wraps. If I had to take a guess, I'd say most of the Raw lifters I see in the UPSA lifting Raw use them in competition. I think the prevailing attitude - with which I have no problem, but to which I don't subscribe myself - is, "If it can help even a little and the rules allow it, why not use it?" for any gear, and since the allowed gear in Raw is sleeves and a belt, that's what most people do.

-S-

 

[Timo Keskitalo]

I have never tried sleeves and I find it cheating. The word is that you can get at least 10kg when you buy right size, that is a workout itself to pull on..

On knee wrap tightness. When done correctly, you have to squeeze your legs as hard as you can in fear of popping your knee caps out of place, when someone else is tying them on with all their strength. Not wrapping too much on the muscle (but the right amount) so that you don't tear your muscles. That's when you get the most out of wraps, min 15kg.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

I have never tried sleeves and I find it cheating.

Cheating?

1) Powerlifting Meet

If the rule allows it in a Powerlifting Organization, how is it cheating?

2) Training Session

If someone is using them during a Squat Training Session, how is that cheating?

Accommodating Resistance

Knee Sleeves and Knee Wraps fall into the the category of Accommodating Resistance with Ascending Strength Curve Movement, such as the Squat.

The Ascending Strength Curve

In Plain English this means the Movement is hard in the bottom part of the Movement and gets easier the closer you get to lock out.

Accommodating Resistance

Attaching Bands and/or Chain to a Squat ensure the mucles in a Movement are loaded through a Greater Range of The Movement; which is top end.

Reverse Band Loading

Hannging Band from the top of a Power Rack to the bar in a Squat ensure loading of the muscle throughout the Full Range of The Movement.

Knee Sleeves and Knee Wraps elicit Reverse Loading; enabling a lifter drive out of the hole with more weight, increasing the loading of the muscle in a Greater Range of The Movement.

Dr Gideon Ariel's Research

Ariel's research determined that regardless of The Movement (Ascending, Descending or Bell Shaped Stregth Curve), only 30% of The Exercise was OverLoad. The key to for Strength and Hypertrophy is to OverLoad the muscles.

The remaining 70% of The Movcement is UnderLoaded. While some result are obtain in the UnderLoad part The Movement, it is dramatically less...meaning the remaining 70% of The Movement does not optimally develop Strength.

he word is that you can get at least 10kg when you buy right size, that is a workout itself to pull on..,when someone else is tying them on with all their strength.

At Least 10 kg Increase

I purchased the SBD Knee Band in one size smaller.

It take a little effort to get them on. However, I get them on in less than 30 seconds.

The tight SBD Knee Sleeves allow me to possibly Squat around 10 lbs/5 kg more.

"Never Tried Them"

It is hard to comprehend something that you have never tried.

Like most, my initial reaction to anything that I am not familiar with and have no personal experience with is questioned and doubted; as is should be.

I then resolve myself to implementing it so that I have practical experience with it.

The Bench Press Sling Shot Post

The discussion of The Sling Shot for Bench Press Training somewhat similar.

The greatest blow back was form individuals who were unable to understand the Training Effect it Elicited with The Sling Shot; Accommodating Strength Training, providing a Post Activation Potentiation Training Effect, etc.

 

[Steve Freides]

I have never tried sleeves and I find it cheating.

I’m with @Kenny Croxdale here. I also haven’t tried them but cheating means breaking the rules - if your goal is to win a competition, you use all the tools at your disposal. If your goals are different than that, as mine are, you don’t necessarily wear knee sleeves. To each his own.

-S-

 

[JPCross]

With respect to sleeves, I do believe that most people experience a very modest bump in ability to handle weight (maybe 10-15lbs or so) for a multitude of reasons but I think the biggest benefits are the warmth in the joint and the increased proprioception.

Wraps, in my mind, are really there to handle more weight. If you are not seeking the option to handle more weight, I am willing to bet good (tight) sleeves will accomplish what you're after.

 

[Timo Keskitalo]

It has already been said a few times even in this chain that they are allowed in competition. I can read. There are also restrictions to the thickness and size of sleeves to limit the advantage. I have witnessed usage and I have been given estimation of the help by users, even talked with the gym buddies about subject many times. This could be interpreted as an observation of usage.

As I understand, "I find it cheating" should mean that my opinion is that... If I was going to compete I would probably wear it, don't get me wrong. Even if I shot my knees so bad that I couldn't squat without sleeves.. it'd still be cheating to me.

Should RAW competitions be held without belt, any gear? Probably so if you ask me. So using sleeves is just another technical aspect into squatting, another gadget to put your money into, buy them all and you can find the one that helps you the most. The one that you can learn how to use best.

I don't want to extend this to other things, but isn't the purpose of a bench shirt originally protective equipment e.g. against pec tears? "Protective equipment", while you can lift 100+ kg more even in single ply / IPF.

 

[watchnerd]

Curious to hear from those among us who use them - what is/are your preference between/observations of using knee wraps vs. sleeves for "heavy" barbell squatting?

I realize that brand and fit can make all the difference when it comes to supportive equipment and would like to hear your thoughts.

I have a pair of sleeves from elitefts that I don't hate, but probably add exactly zero lbs to my lift. And that's fine, it's mostly a warmth and placebo boost for me anyway and I've never gotten a lot from knee wraps either. I also have an old pair of Inzer knee wraps that I like and probably, I'm guessing, add 10lb to my squat.

Sleeves here.

I have a mini collection of sleeves, ranging from OG Rehband blues that are 10 years old now and pretty nasty to some fancy pants Eleiko sleeves.

For back squats, I find most of the benefit to be proprioceptive than adding kilos.

For front squats (more knee dominant), I think they do add a few kilos, but not like wearing a belt.

For dynamic moves like snatch & c&J, though, I think they have the most benefit due to just generally stabilizing things if my feet end up in a slightly wonky position.

I feel like they help on snatch pulls and clean pulls, too, although this may be proprioceptive as I feel more comfortable keeping the bar close and having it almost brush the sleeves than my raw knees.