Barbell LBSQ Critique

[Steve Freides]

The OP says he's bee deadlifting for 3 years. His posterior chain should be plenty strong.
Yet he struggles with a 110lb low bar for 12 reps of what he believes was an AMRAP (it wasn't, watch bar speed & his apparent fatigue).
Something is very wrong here. If you've been training properly for 3 years, this isn't normal. He's much weaker than I'd expect.

@Kyle Bois, you’ve made some assumptions with which we might disagree.

My experience as both student and teacher has been that, while squatting can carry over to deadlifting, it doesn’t often work in the other direction. I have deadlifted 2.5 x bodyweight in competition but have never managed anywhere near double bodyweight in the squat. Nothing is “very wrong” here, just a lifter new to the squat.

-S-

 

[Boris Bachmann]

The OP says he's bee deadlifting for 3 years. His posterior chain should be plenty strong.
Yet he struggles with a 110lb low bar for 12 reps of what he believes was an AMRAP (it wasn't, watch bar speed & his apparent fatigue).
Something is very wrong here. If you've been training properly for 3 years, this isn't normal. He's much weaker than I'd expect.

Yeah... again, you make this seem like he's an injury waiting to happen. Re-read the thread - most people (including you) note that he is NOT struggling with the weight at all...

Of course I agree, but you all seem to be missing my point.
He's attempting to do AMRAPs with a terrible squat pattern and none of you have corrected him on this point.
WHY?
Is training to failure not dangerous enough already without doing it in an unstable pattern?
You're putting the cart before the horse IMO.

As you noted, he wasn't training to failure. RE-READ the thread - you are not the only one who said he needs works. You are the only one screaming that he needs to check himself before he wrecks himself however...

None of you were at all curious as to "why" he is low bar squatting, and none of you asked.
You just proceeded to answer a question without recognizing that he was asking the wrong question.
He gave plenty of hints to this: "i'm doing GreySkull", "i'm doing AMRAPS", "I'm learning from starting strength"
Again, you were putting the cart before the horse IMO.

People have their reasons and motivations for training the way they do and I try not to judge it. If someone comes to me and asks "Can you look at my squat form?", then I look at their squat form and give what advice I feel qualified to give. I do NOT tell them not to squat, although I may suggest modifications or regressions that I feel may be appropriate. If I were personally coaching or training someone, I would approach all of this quite differently.

 

[Hung]

@Abdul-Rasheed could you film a set of 5 with 10 kg heavier? Or about 90% your 5RM? I'm curious with your form at that weight? I bet it will look better

 

[Abdul-Rasheed]

Don’t have a good angle video but here is a recent one.

Looks awesome and purposeful. Those cushions to ensure depth yes? Looks like something that would be useful to me.

 

[Abdul-Rasheed]

The OP says he's bee deadlifting for 3 years. His posterior chain should be plenty strong.
Yet he struggles with a 110lb low bar for 12 reps of what he believes was an AMRAP (it wasn't, watch bar speed & his apparent fatigue).
Something is very wrong here. If you've been training properly for 3 years, this isn't normal. He's much weaker than I'd expect.

FYI. I am back to training after a break of three years. Before that I have deadlifted for 3-4 years. My DL PR is 355lbs so you get an Idea where my strength levels like. Took me a while to break 300lbs. And so now I am intentionally doing light weights and not rushing. Also trying to learn to squat pattern.

 

[Abdul-Rasheed]

Dude. I don't know what you see so wrong in his form. He is good to go for squatting low bar and working on his technique as he improves.
The depth can be fixed by squatting to the pins. The neck position - eventually, by putting a marker on the floor or on the wall, and looking at it. He would be better of course by squatting 3x5, or maybe doing Starting Strength instead of Grayskull.

Consider this: getting stronger by squatting, and presenting perfect squat mechanics - those are 2 different goals.
People learn in the process of doing things. From what I have seen - he is good to continue and learn.

Also - I do not know about the Grayskull (for what I care, all the stuff like Stronglifts, Grayskull and so on are just rip-offs from the Starting Strength). But - if he would be doing Starting Strength, he would be low bar squatting. Period. Unless he cannot do it. And - of course he would be on another forum.

Yep, I am trying to work on my technique and learning to improve. As mentioned before I love SS and been trying to follow their techniques.

 

[Abdul-Rasheed]

@Abdul-Rasheed could you film a set of 5 with 10 kg heavier? Or about 90% your 5RM? I'm curious with your form at that weight? I bet it will look better

Sure thing, I will post one soon.

 

[silveraw]

Looks awesome and purposeful. Those cushions to ensure depth yes? Looks like something that would be useful to me.

I was going too deep and my coach was trying to get me to stop at competition depth.

But yeah they are a great cue for depth.

 

[Timo Keskitalo]

Back to training after a gap of couple of years. Here is a set of LBSQ (12 reps with 110lbs) for your critique. 12 reps because this is AMRAP set from GreysSkull LP program that I chose as a practice for now.

Thanks!

Major issue is the chest up -cue. In the video your upper back alignment is a bit convex. There's two schools in the eye alignment, straight forward or down. If you want to look down, gaze should be 2-3 m forward anyway. I look forward for more open chest (chest up). You should turn your elbows forward rather than backward to open your chest.

Before taking the bar on your back create the tension in your abdomen. Brace as if you are about to take a beating from all around. Squeeze the bar to create tension in upper back.

When taking the bar, pull the bar into your back with hands. Think of pushing your traps/back through the bar. This cue is very important in bottom position too, think of moving your back/neck through the bar instead of moving the bar. This should decrease the hip shift or hips rising before bar rises. In / after this stage I often try to rotate my elbows forward to keep my chest up. The bar should be so deep in your back and you are squeezing the bar so it will not fall off.

Low back alignment looks great to me. I'm an amateur in all aspects, but your low back stability suggests that there is no immediate risk of injury. At least with this type of weight. You should squat at least 5-10cm lower if you can keep your low back alignment like it is. Keeping your chest up should naturally change your overall body angle a little bit upwards.

Towards the end your left knee starts to twitch more and more. Focus on keeping it steady. Try pushing your knees out but not outside toes.

Finally keep your weight evenly on balls of feet and heels. The weight is maybe too light to reveal if there's imbalance. Eddy Coans 10 second decrease should help you find your ideal body position for ideal balance. When filming from side the bar should ideally stay in the middle of your foot all the time.

Shoes should be hard no cushions etc.

 

[bluejeff]

Low bar squats look very different from bodyweight squats. There is a different center of gravity, different leverages, different cues.

I agree with this. I might even go so far as to say that if someone's bodyweight squat looked like a low bar squat, that would be an issue worth addressing. It was mentioned somewhere above but placing a heavy@$$ bar on your back (especially "low" on your back) changes your center of mass quite significantly, and that alone will make the move dramatically different than an unloaded squat.

As far as I think I am concerned, if someone wants to low bar squat, that's fine. Take some cues from those experienced with it (many of which have been provided), don't treat yourself like you're made of glass. . . AND don't go ham and load like crazy and pay zero attention to form. The OP seems to be doing all of that just fine.

We've had the discussion around loaded vs unloaded movement before around here. I am 100% for finding movement patterns that treat an individual well, AND.... loaded movement absolutely should not be treated the same as unloaded movement. They can be too different from each other, depending on the case at hand. We need both to function in training and in daily life, but training also does not equal daily life (or else it wouldn't be training). For instance: in dealing with some funky shoulder/neck issues, I have found that handstand pushups make them feel better while lighter movement like pushups are problematic. I am working on fixing the issues with lighter moves, but a move where I really have to push (a loaded movement) is teaching my difficult shoulder how to move better.

Anyway, interesting disscussion here, carry on

 

[Steve Freides]

And so now I am intentionally doing light weights and not rushing.

For many of us, and for many movements, too light does not provide sufficient feedback. One needs feedback in order to improve. I would suggest, rather than sticking with light weights, structure your squat sessions so that you work up to some thing that you might describe as comfortably heavy, perhaps a weight that you do one or two reps with that you could do five or six with if you absolutely had to. You will, I think, find this more instructive as it pertains to squat form.

-S-

 

[Abdul-Rasheed]

For many of us, and for many movements, too light does not provide sufficient feedback. One needs feedback in order to improve. I would suggest, rather than sticking with light weights, structure your squat sessions so that you work up to some thing that you might describe as comfortably heavy, perhaps a weight that you do one or two reps with that you could do five or six with if you absolutely had to. You will, I think, find this more instructive as it pertains to squat form.

Steve, I am increasing the weight (5lbs per session) and I will get there soon. And I don't know the weight that is comfortably heavy for me yet. I think I will know soon.

 

[Abdul-Rasheed]

Thanks for taking time to write this.

You should turn your elbows forward rather than backward to open your chest.

Currently my shoulder mobility is limiting me to do this. It hurts my shoulder to do anything more than I am currently doing. I do not have this issue with high bar squat however.

Squeeze the bar to create tension in upper back.

When I try to do this, it hurts my shoulders. My hope is that, in turn the mobility will improve and I can squeeze and "bend" the bar and create such tension in the upper body. I am new to this movement pattern.

Think of pushing your traps/back through the bar. This cue is very important in bottom position too, think of moving your back/neck through the bar instead of moving the bar.

Love this. Never heard of this cue before. I will try to remember!

but your low back stability suggests that there is no immediate risk of injury.

Thats a relief

You should squat at least 5-10cm lower if you can keep your low back alignment like it is

I have been working on this since I got similar feedback from others. I will post another video soon.

Towards the end your left knee starts to twitch more and more. Focus on keeping it steady. Try pushing your knees out but not outside toes.

I have not noticed this! I watched the video again and will work to correct it.

Eddy Coans 10 second decrease should help you find your ideal body position for ideal balance.

This is great! I will look at it, and yes it should help finding my correct balance.

 

[Steve Freides]

For many of us, and for many movements, too light does not provide sufficient feedback. One needs feedback in order to improve. I would suggest, rather than sticking with light weights, structure your squat sessions so that you work up to some thing that you might describe as comfortably heavy, perhaps a weight that you do one or two reps with that you could do five or six with if you absolutely had to. You will, I think, find this more instructive as it pertains to squat form.

Steve, I am increasing the weight (5lbs per session) and I will get there soon. And I don't know the weight that is comfortably heavy for me yet. I think I will know soon.

Abdul, I understand what you're saying. I'm recommending something different. Get used to the idea of just working up to something moderately heavy at least once a week. Honestly I prefer doing this every day I squat when I'm getting back into squatting after an absence. Eventually, you'll start to get a hint that you're tired when you try this two squat sessions in a row, and you can cut back on the frequency, but by that point, you'll have a pretty good idea what "moderately heavy" for you is, and ballparking the math, that will likely be in the 70-80% 1RM range and you can then look into a more organized squat program, e.g., a 5 x 5 or similar.

-S-

 

[Abdul-Rasheed]

Abdul, I understand what you're saying. I'm recommending something different. Get used to the idea of just working up to something moderately heavy at least once a week. Honestly I prefer doing this every day I squat when I'm getting back into squatting after an absence. Eventually, you'll start to get a hint that you're tired when you try this two squat sessions in a row, and you can cut back on the frequency, but by that point, you'll have a pretty good idea what "moderately heavy" for you is, and ballparking the math, that will likely be in the 70-80% 1RM range and you can then look into a more organized squat program, e.g., a 5 x 5 or similar.

-S-

Got it! I understand now, Steve. I will look into this.