Barbell Low back barbell squat Form Check

[BJJ Shawn]

Open to suggestions here. This is a PR 245 x 2. I know that knees past your toes is not a problem for safety like many of us were once told, but can you lift more if you try to sit back more instead of down?

I also noticed that I have the safeties a bit high here as I thought I was hitting depth but it doesn’t look like I’m quite there. I don’t compete so it’s not a huge deal, but I’m definitely higher than I thought.

245lb x 2 Squat form check

youtube.com

 

[Anna C]

Nice job on the PR! That's a good solid weight for a double.

Your thread title... is is low bar? Because your bar placement looks more like high bar. I can't see exactly where you've placed the bar, so I'm not sure.

If you are going for low bar, then yes I'd go for hips back farther. And yes, more depth (good for general strength building, not just competition), and set safeties lower so you're not hesitant at the bottom.

First screen capture is descent and second is same rep, ascent. See how both hips and knees are farther back on the ascent? I'd go for that position on your descent, so bringing the hips back more deliberately on the descent should get you in a more solid position at the bottom. Also on the descent your back looks a bit hyper extended, so just take care not to exaggerate that when you try to bring your hips back. Hinge the hips back as opposed to trying to just reach the butt back.



If you get another video, 45 degrees from the back is a better angle.

 

[Steve Freides]

@BJJ Shawn, I can tell you that, at least at the USPA Nationals I attended in July, 2021, your squat would get red-lighted for insufficient depth. They look for the top of the thigh to break parallel.

@Anna C, interesting advice as far as knee position goes. I would counsel the opposite, preferring the position of the first picture for the ascent as well.

I try to get my knees to their final forward position at the start of the descent and then keep them there into the hole and back out again, bringing them back only towards the end of the lift. When the knees go back during the first half of the ascent out of the hole, you are tilting forward and shifting the weight to be more on your back, a sign that the weight is really too heavy. I understand it can and does happen on one's heaviest lifts but I believe it's best avoided for most training reps, and best to try to avoid even on heavy squats.

Here's an example of the kind of form I recommend:



-S-

 

[Mark Limbaga]

Still a strong effort. Steve and Anna already gave you pointers to work on..

Curious what programming are you following at the moment

 

[BJJ Shawn]

Still a strong effort. Steve and Anna already gave you pointers to work on..

Curious what programming are you following at the moment

5/3/1, and today was week 3 so final set was 1+. I’ve only been barbell squatting for 3 weeks so I still have a lot to learn. I did squats years ago, but only with a smith machine so I don’t count those.

 

[Steve A]

5/3/1, and today was week 3 so final set was 1+. I’ve only been barbell squatting for 3 weeks so I still have a lot to learn. I did squats years ago, but only with a smith machine so I don’t count those.

Hey Shawn, if you've only been barbell squatting for 3 weeks, doing 5/3/1 or any program where you are trying to get a "max" performance with heavy weights is probably not a good idea. I would consider taking a few weeks to just get good at squatting. You've got pretty decent strength already, but this would help you to express that strength more safely and with greater confidence.

 

[BJJ Shawn]

So I have a new video from today if I can get some more pointers. The weight here is a bit lower, and I tried a few head positions to see what feels better, so you can see my head moving around a bit. I see it doesn’t LOOK like a low bar squat, but that’s the lowest I can go as my shoulders and elbows are already hurting to hold it that low. It feels low, but I guess it’s not?

I felt my hips rise on my last rep, so I cut my set off there. That seems to be my limiting factor, as I think I have a stronger good morning than squat so what is a good way to work on correcting that imbalance?

Also, I saw @Steve Freides ask for a goblet squat video on another squat form check and since I do them as part of my warmup anyway I threw in a video of that in case it helps pinpoint issues I can work on.

 

[Mark Limbaga]

Ok better..

For the GSQ, that depth causes a slight tail tuck so I'd lessen the depth as you keep working your mobility

 

[Anna C]

Looks really good to me, @BJJ Shawn.

I would say yes, it's low bar as far as the position of the bar on your back, and your overall form.

I think any head position works, but I would pick a focal point and keep your eyes on it through the whole set.

I felt my hips rise on my last rep, so I cut my set off there. That seems to be my limiting factor, as I think I have a stronger good morning than squat so what is a good way to work on correcting that imbalance?

I see the slight difference on the last rep but I wouldn't worry about it. Just keep training...

Also, I saw @Steve Freides ask for a goblet squat video on another squat form check and since I do them as part of my warmup anyway I threw in a video of that in case it helps pinpoint issues I can work on.

My input there would be to slow the descent, use the hip flexors to pull yourself down (and to pull lower/deeper at the bottom). Also keep your back extensor muscles tight -- lower back and upper back.

Hope that helps!

 

[Steve A]

Shawn, on the GSQ set your back (including your neck) and maintain that set. You should not be approaching the bottom and then rounding at both ends. On the SQ, drop some weight so that you can hit a consistent depth, which should probably be a bit lower than most of those. Also there is a change in your concentric starting at rep 3 - that is early in a set for that to be happening. Your set-up looks pretty good, your back set looks pretty good. I would not be worrying about "low bar" and if what you are doing is bothering some part of your body, it is just a matter of time before that becomes a problem that prevents squatting.

 

[Hung]

That seems to be my limiting factor, as I think I have a stronger good morning than squat so what is a good way to work on correcting that imbalance?

At the sticking point pushing your hips to the front.
Hip raise is quite common when quads are out of gas or when you're not familiar using the quads to push.

I highly recommend Greg Nuckols's squat articles, they help me a bunch.

Squat Archives

www.strongerbyscience.com

 

[BJJ Shawn]

Ok better..

For the GSQ, that depth causes a slight tail tuck so I'd lessen the depth as you keep working your mobility

Any particular things to try to improve mobility? Does doing more squats improve squat mobility or should I use something else?

 

[BJJ Shawn]

Shawn, on the GSQ set your back (including your neck) and maintain that set. You should not be approaching the bottom and then rounding at both ends.

Ok, gotcha.

On the SQ, drop some weight so that you can hit a consistent depth, which should probably be a bit lower than most of those.

Dropping weight hurts my ego, but makes sense.

Also there is a change in your concentric starting at rep 3 - that is early in a set for that to be happening.

Individually I know what each of those words means, but together I’m not sure I understand. Is this in reference to too much weight again? Something else I need to focus on?

Your set-up looks pretty good, your back set looks pretty good. I would not be worrying about "low bar" and if what you are doing is bothering some part of your body, it is just a matter of time before that becomes a problem that prevents squatting.

I only mention the low bar because earlier in the thread after my first video it was brought up and I really don’t know. Since I have no plans to compete for the foreseeable future I guess it really wouldn’t matter anyway.

 

[BJJ Shawn]

At the sticking point pushing your hips to the front.
Hip raise is quite common when quads are out of gas or when you're not familiar using the quads to push.

I highly recommend Greg Nuckols's squat articles, they help me a bunch.

Squat Archives

www.strongerbyscience.com

Wow, there’s a lot of info in that link. I’ve started looking through it, and I think I’ll end up going down the rabbit hole but in the end it should provide some good insight. Thank you.

 

[Mark Limbaga]

Any particular things to try to improve mobility? Does doing more squats improve squat mobility or should I use something else?

Apart from the GSQ done with slightly less depth and taking deep breaths, a few things that usually improve range of motion

Laying on your back pulling knees to chest and learning to breathe into the stomach

On your hands and knees, do some rocking (YouTube search original strength rocking)

On your hands and feet (knees off the mat) slow crawling forward and backward

These have worked well for those who I have trained..

If none of these move the needle in a week or so, I'd recommend hiring a coach even for a few sessions, that would usually seal the deal

 

[Anna C]

Any particular things to try to improve mobility? Does doing more squats improve squat mobility or should I use something else?

A few minutes with this every day...

 

[Anna C]

Oh and @BJJ Shawn I forgot to compliment you on improvement from your first video from 9/18 to your second video on 10/9. It looks much better, more trained, more practiced, more solid and confident, and better movement. So I would say you are definitely headed in the right direction!

 

[Anna C]

I only mention the low bar because earlier in the thread after my first video it was brought up and I really don’t know. Since I have no plans to compete for the foreseeable future I guess it really wouldn’t matter anyway.

I agree it doesn't matter whether you train low bar or high bar, but I would stick with one for a while (or training cycle) and develop the technique and strength for it.

I agree with @Steve A that if it bothers your shoulders, etc. it could progress to a worse problem, but I think the opposite can be true, also. Often times as you use this new pattern, your body adapts to it. Many people have had trouble with low bar position due to tight shoulders, and over time the situation improves. Here's a handy stretch that helps with this, specifically.

 

[Steve A]

Individually I know what each of those words means, but together I’m not sure I understand. Is this in reference to too much weight again? Something else I need to focus on?

When a set gets hard, the body tries to compensate. Watch the changes from rep to rep. As you get better at squatting, changes from rep to rep should be limited to speed. Otherwise reps should look pretty constant. At your current ability, which is not just a matter of pure strength, the 3rd rep of a 5 rep set should not result in execution changes. Yes you can fix this partly by lowering weight, but part of it is just practice. There are probably sequences in your BJJ practice where a movement is regularly done with a certain level of being consistently good before the next complication of the movement is done (sorry, don't know BJJ practice terms). Trying to make an analogy - adding weight to your squats is that next complication.

If you change where you hold the bar to preserve your elbows and shoulders (assuming you put off low bar, at least for now), that will slightly change things. You will need to practice with that new position. I would back off to 185, or even 155, and get the movement perfect. Just practice at that weight. Post video if you need/want, but also get good at seeing things yourself over time. When you consistently perform all reps at that weight to a good standard, then add 5 or 10 lbs and repeat. When you get to the point where you are working hard and still performing consistent good reps, then is the time to think about "program."

 

[BJJ Shawn]

I agree it doesn't matter whether you train low bar or high bar, but I would stick with one for a while (or training cycle) and develop the technique and strength for it.

I agree with @Steve A that if it bothers your shoulders, etc. it could progress to a worse problem, but I think the opposite can be true, also. Often times as you use this new pattern, your body adapts to it. Many people have had trouble with low bar position due to tight shoulders, and over time the situation improves. Here's a handy stretch that helps with this, specifically.

That’s pretty helpful, thank you. I think I have been going in the direction of it getting better the more I do it as there is definitely less discomfort now than a month ago, but I have a long way to go so the this stretch should help.