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Kettlebell Maffetone running to compliment S+S

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Lotto said:
What is rucking out of interest?
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Definitely read that article that Anna C linked above.
I wear a weighted vest. If I have a run planned and I'm fatigued, or I want to switch it up, I'll throw on the vest and walk for 30-60 mins. Hills are great if that's possible. My HR averages at least 15 bpm slower for a weighted ruck vs. an MAF run, so it's a nice active recovery with some loaded added. During the winter I'll ruck on my treadmill and keep the incline between 5-10%, that keeps the HR elevated nicely so you're getting some work in, but still in a nice aerobic zone.
 
mar2safety said:
Definitely read that article that Anna C linked above.
I wear a weighted vest. If I have a run planned and I'm fatigued, or I want to switch it up, I'll throw on the vest and walk for 30-60 mins. Hills are great if that's possible. My HR averages at least 15 bpm slower for a weighted ruck vs. an MAF run, so it's a nice active recovery with some loaded added. During the winter I'll ruck on my treadmill and keep the incline between 5-10%, that keeps the HR elevated nicely so you're getting some work in, but still in a nice aerobic zone.
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Why wouldn‘t you ruck outdoors in winter...?
 
Aah I see @Anna C and @mar2safety. That was great reading. I also read the linked Military Deployment Prep: A program for hardening the soldier. I spent 12 years in the British military and it is interesting that even though it is a termed coined from Britain, it is not actually one we use. Paratroopers call it Tab or Tabbing (Tactical Advance to Battle) or the Royal Marines call it yomping. Whichever phrase people use to describe it indicates their service.
 
MAF training can be very rewarding if you put in the hours. Phil Maffetone’s book is titled "The Big Book of Endurance Training and Racing" and by endurance he typically means marathon events or longer. Most of his anecdotes are about endurance athletes like Mark Allen who improved their aerobic capacity by putting in long hours in their MAF zone. At my peak aerobic fitness, after doing 10+ hours of MAF training per week for more than 3 months, my aerobic capacity had improved to the point where I could ride or run up most hills (slowly) without exceeding my MAF heart rate. My cycling pace improved by 5km/h and my running by 50 sec/km.

But, in my experience, if you are trying to get faster off just a couple of hours a week you may find it very frustrating. Progress can be so slow that you'll want to give up running. From what I've read most coaches feel that the magic for endurance runners only starts to happen once their weekly mileage gets above 50km.

So although I believe that the Maffetone Method is a healthy way to train and great for ultra-events like Ironman, I'm yet to be convinced that it's optimal for someone putting in 3 x 5km per week.

On alarms: For running and cycling I would set my alarm at a couple of beats below my MAF threshold, so I am warned to slow down before I exceed it.
 
offwidth said:
Why wouldn‘t you ruck outdoors in winter...?
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I ruck outdoors in the winter as well, but I live in Western Canada and sometimes I don't want to ruck at -30 with an added windchill. I like the treadmill for controlling the elevation factor. I like walking uphill continuously for 60+ mins, all in the confines of my basement.
 
Lotto said:
Aah I see @Anna C and @mar2safety. That was great reading. I also read the linked Military Deployment Prep: A program for hardening the soldier. I spent 12 years in the British military and it is interesting that even though it is a termed coined from Britain, it is not actually one we use. Paratroopers call it Tab or Tabbing (Tactical Advance to Battle) or the Royal Marines call it yomping. Whichever phrase people use to describe it indicates their service.
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I served in the Canadian Army. We called it rucking. As a young soldier I didn't appreciate the benefits until after my service was done.
 
Davidlbn said:
endurance he typically means marathon events or longer.
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I concur. In the world of serious endurance a typical marathon is really just entry level...
It‘s when you get into day long or multi-day affairs that things start to get interesting...
 
Lotto said:
Second MAF run tonight. I tried to chop down on some variables( decaff afternoon coffee anyone??)and intentionally went to a different venue so I could get 'a feel' for my pace.
I took on board the suggestions of setting an audible alarm on my HRM. I opted for 10 above and 10 below my MAF target. Should I narrow or expand this tolerance?
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That’s not MAF training. You’re doing something else. The MAF training zone is MAF HR to ten bears lower. As Maffetone often quips, what part of MAXIMUM is unclear? Perhaps it’s time to read and listen to the man himself and learn more.

The Maffetone Method isn’t the only way to go, there are other aerobic training systems. But if you want the benefits, you have Follow the Program.
 
@vegpedlr. Yeah I'm aware that I'm not exactly following MAF as laid out. I'm feeling my way around it at the minute with the kind guidance of people on here and the MAF website itself. It is a hard technique to adjust to when you have just came across it and never trained in that fashion previously. I'm not even expecting to have all the bumps ironed out for at least a half dozen runs. I'm attracted to the benefits though so I'm happy to continue my learning curve which is steep at the minute.
 
I did a 12.5k ruck this morning with fair amt of elevation changes with a 16kg pack in 2:11. My avg heart rate was 122 (well below my MAF hr of 138) but it was much much harder than the typical MAF run for me... so I think rucking isn’t really recovery, at least not on an overall basis.
 
Lotto said:
@vegpedlr. Yeah I'm aware that I'm not exactly following MAF as laid out. I'm feeling my way around it at the minute with the kind guidance of people on here and the MAF website itself. It is a hard technique to adjust to when you have just came across it and never trained in that fashion previously. I'm not even expecting to have all the bumps ironed out for at least a half dozen runs. I'm attracted to the benefits though so I'm happy to continue my learning curve which is steep at the minute.
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Forgive me if that’s sounded harsh. It’s the same as any other program. People think it sounds good, but then immediately start changing and “improving” it without giving it a fair trial. The Maffetone Method is different enough from other systems that it should be evaluated on its own merits. It makes the most sense when Maffetone himself explains it. There is phislosophy and reasoning behind it.

It’s not the only system, and it’s not for everyone or to be used forever. Other zone based systems like those described by Seilor or Friel are also effective.
 
godjira1 said:
I did a 12.5k ruck this morning with fair amt of elevation changes with a 16kg pack in 2:11. My avg heart rate was 122 (well below my MAF hr of 138) but it was much much harder than the typical MAF run for me... so I think rucking isn’t really recovery, at least not on an overall basis.
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Definitely not 2 hours of it!

Important to remember that heart rate isn't the only way to measure physical strain, and that total volume can have a big impact.
 
Lotto said:
Thanks @vegpedlr. I'll have a look at Seilor and Friel for comparison of zone based training methods.
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You can obviously do as you wish, but my main comment here is to pick something sustainable and do it for a long time. Finding a system that is sustainable and testable is huge. I think that’s why Maffetone has become fairly popular - he prescribes the training, the testing, and what to do when your progress stalls (in general: go lower, go longer, or change your diet). That is phenomenal, especially if you don’t have a coach.
 
Coyotl said:
You can obviously do as you wish, but my main comment here is to pick something sustainable and do it for a long time. Finding a system that is sustainable and testable is huge. I think that’s why Maffetone has become fairly popular - he prescribes the training, the testing, and what to do when your progress stalls (in general: go lower, go longer, or change your diet). That is phenomenal, especially if you don’t have a coach.
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For me, the Maffetone Method is great because it simplifies aerobic training for most of the people, most of the time. If the priorities are basic health and fitness, it does the job with very minimal risk. Why go hard if you don’t need to? Honestly, I think the only reason to stray from MAF is if you have specific endurance performance goals. Even then, you still need a good base. The drawback is that the 180 formula is very conservative, so some athletes will be training a little easier than would be optimal.
 
vegpedlr said:
Even then, you still need a good base. The drawback is that the 180 formula is very conservative, so some athletes will be training a little easier than would be optimal.
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Very little drawback of going too easy during base training! Allows more volume and better recovery. In the almost 10 years I've been an endurance coach I've never helped an athlete get faster by telling them to speed up their steady state training.
 
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