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Bodyweight Musings and Explosive Lifts

rvaldrich

Level 5 Valued Member
So I read this: The Best Hip Hinge Exercise | StrongFirst
Spoiler alert: it's the swing.
Now, Pavel would go on to crown his best lift for other exercises (squat, push, pull, etc). But it got me thinking...the swing has always seemed like a ballistic deadlift. Yes, yes, I know that's not technically true but go with me here. And there seem to be all these huge benefits and great carryover for the swing. So might some other ballistic lifts ultimately prove better than their more traditional lift?

Might the clap push-up be superior to the bench press, for the same reasons the swing beats the deadlift? I mean that beyond building power, but building overall general physical ability.
Do we (or anyone) have any exploration of this?
 

rvaldrich

Level 5 Valued Member
So I'm still toying around with this idea. I may take on an experiment in a month or so, if my shoulder(s) is up to it.

I'm thinking about using explosive box push-ups for the pushing motion (regular push-up on the floor, explode up, and catch your hands on boxes, then reload). I'm trying to balance explosiveness with minimizing impact and technical demands.

For the pulling motion, I've stumbled across the Half Muscle-Up (). It seems like it fits the bill nicely. A lot farther along the skill demands than I'd like, but it seems the most feasible.
I'm not sure a pull is necessary as the lats are pretty heavily involved with a good swing.

Thoughts?
 

marvinthemartian

Level 5 Valued Member
Explosive lifting does recruit more muscle fiber at a given weight and there seems to be some evidence that strength exercises that are done at greater speed are more effective. But in Pavel's article he mentions that the swing is "better" than the deadlift because it is easier and safer to learn and delivers cardio benefits as well. It's not "better" in the sense that it delivers better results than the deadlift.

In short: Lifting explosivley might be better. But I think you are twisting Pavel's arguments and drawing conclusions that are not there.
 

rvaldrich

Level 5 Valued Member
No, I certainly understand that it doesn't deliver better results than the deadlift. Merely that it delivered a portion of the same results, but then additional results (the explosiveness, the cardio, etc). I'm curious if that kind of approach applies to other exercises is all. If the Clap Push-up (just for argument's sake) delivered 75% of the strength gains of a body-weight bench press, but also the explosiveness and maybe some cardio, would it be superior? Or would the high-impact nature or technical elements make it too demanding?

And please understand, I'm not trying to twist Pavel (or anyone else's) statements. Just...doing some exploring. The unique nature of the swing never felt mirrored by any other exercises (at least to me). Maybe there's nothing else like the swing, but I can't recall having seen it discussed. Like I said, just exploring.
 

Antti

Level 9 Valued Member
To me, a big point between the swing and the deadlift is that you get to load your body with the eccentric with the swing but not as well with the deadlift. However, when we consider the other best lifts by Pavel, the bench press and the zercher squat, you have a proper eccentric with both of these already.

Besides, one could do the Romanian deadlift, or to spare the semantic overload, just do a deadlift so that you quit the motion a bit under the knee before you get up again, going just as far as your glutes don't have to start sharing the workload as they do with full ROM deadlifts. Or consider the Dimel deadlift, I think that's great and in a sense similar to the swing.

If you're interested in power production in horizontal pressing, there is a very popular and undoubtedly effective training method of dynamic effort, especially popularized by Westside Barbell. The typical prescription is to do 50-55-60% 1RM with light bands on top for 8-10 triples once a week.
 

marvinthemartian

Level 5 Valued Member
No, I certainly understand that it doesn't deliver better results than the deadlift. Merely that it delivered a portion of the same results, but then additional results (the explosiveness, the cardio, etc). I'm curious if that kind of approach applies to other exercises is all. If the Clap Push-up (just for argument's sake) delivered 75% of the strength gains of a body-weight bench press, but also the explosiveness and maybe some cardio, would it be superior? Or would the high-impact nature or technical elements make it too demanding?

And please understand, I'm not trying to twist Pavel (or anyone else's) statements. Just...doing some exploring. The unique nature of the swing never felt mirrored by any other exercises (at least to me). Maybe there's nothing else like the swing, but I can't recall having seen it discussed. Like I said, just exploring.

I will say it again: Pavel picked the swing over the deadlift in the article not because it gives better or more useful or easier results (explosiveness, endurance, etc). :D He picked it over the deadlift (that Pavel still prefers) because it is easier and safer for most people to learn while still having good enough carry over to lot's of things the deadlift trains and a few things the deadlift doesn't train. He dismissed the explosive BB clean and BB snatch and KB snatch because they are more difficult to learn.

If a clap push ups gets you strong enough for what you need while giving you things the bench press doesn't give you then it is a great exercise for you. If you want a blend of strength, endurance and explosiveness like you get with the swing you can even get a program from Pavel called Quick & Dead.

But a bench press can also be done explosively. And is easy to scale and learn. So when looking for an answer if clap push up is superior to the bench in general (especially when you want to use the same reasons that speak for the swing) then I would say no.
 

Eyetic

Level 5 Valued Member
So I'm still toying around with this idea. I may take on an experiment in a month or so, if my shoulder(s) is up to it.
I suggest to avoid any explosive push up, box push up or any sort with a problem in the shoulder....
 
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